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Bowie General > Ziggy Box Track List

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-03-23 17:26:13(13 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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russellmael wrote:

The Spiders version of The Supermen is the one used on the Glastonbury Fayre album. It was on the Ryko Hunky Dory and ZS30 CD etc.The instrumental of Starman that the band mimed to on TOTP was recorded at Trident in June 1972. Musician Union rules of the day. It can be considered just another studio out take from the era for which they have the multitracks for so can remix it into stereo.

Where is that documented, Pegg's book? I had read that BBC musicians had to be involved due to those rules, but I think some artists managed to work around that sometimes.

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BesomdaveDonatedPosted at 2024-03-23 22:13:26(13 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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Some bands used to go go into the  BBC studios to supposedly record the backing tracks for TOTP , but would then take the bbc engineer out for a few beers and substitute their own previously recorded backing track.

Last edited by Besomdave on 2024-03-24 09:09:05


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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-03-23 23:33:52(13 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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Brilliant!  :D

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MythicalkingDonatedPosted at 2024-03-25 09:24:42(12 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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The marketing material for ‘Rock’n’Roll Star!’ suggests that there are a total of 28 previously unreleased tracks included in the box set. I’ve tried to work my way through the listed tracks to identify exactly what we might get for our money and how much of that is genuinely previously unreleased.

Disc 1 has 10 previously unreleased tracks:

So Long 60s (San Francisco Hotel Recording)/Hang On to Yourself (Demo)/Star (aka 'Stars' - Demo)/Soul Love (Demo and DB Spoken Notes)/Starman (Demo 1 Excerpt)/Starman (Demo 2)/Looking for a Friend (Arnold Corns Version - Rough Mix)/Haddon Hall Rehearsals Segue: Ziggy Stardust/Holy Holy/Soul Love/Star (aka 'Stars') (Haddon Hall Rehearsal)/Sweet Head (Haddon Hall Rehearsal)

Given the poor quality of the San Francisco Hotel recordings on the ‘Divine Symmetry’ release it’s very much “buyer beware” in terms of the opening ‘So Long 60s’. It looks as though the various demos are probably from the tape that Mick Ronson gave away and which was sold at auction last year.  Snippets from that tape found on youtube suggest that the quality isn’t bad but who knows whether any upgrading work has been done.  The Arnold Corns rough mix of ‘Looking For A friend’ is readily available in bootleg form and I can’t comment on the Haddon Hall rehearsals as I can’t find anything on them.

Disc 2 has just 4 previously unreleased tracks:

Ziggy Stardust (Sounds of The 70s: John Peel - rec. 1/11/1972)/Queen Bitch (Sounds of The 70s: John Peel - rec. 1/11/1972)/Waiting for the Man (Sounds of The 70s: John Peel - rec. 1/11/1972)/Lady Stardust (Sounds of The 70s: John Peel - rec. 1/11/1972)

All 4 of these tracks are available on an array of bootlegs – most notably o the ‘Nobody’s Children’ disc from the 3CD Essential David Bowie set.  I guess it all comes down to whether anything has been done to upgrade the sound.

Disc 3 has no previously unreleased tracks at all

Disc 4 has just the 1 previously unreleased track:

My Death (Live @ the Music Hall, Boston, MA – 10/1/1972)

The Boston tracks on the ‘Aladdin Sane  (30th Anniversary Edition)’ weren’t great sound-wise so we’re likely to get something of similar quality for a track that is already out there in similar audio quality on the ‘Music Hall Memories’ bootleg.

Disc 5 has 13 previously unreleased tracks:

Looking for a Friend (Arnold Corns Version - 2022 Mix)/Hang On to Yourself (Early Ziggy Session Take) Star (aka 'Stars') (Alternative Version - Take 5)/Lady Stardust (Alternative Version - Take 1)/Shadow Man (Ziggy Session Version)/The Supermen (Ziggy Session Version - 2023 Mix)/Holy Holy (Ziggy Session Version - Alternative Mix)/It's Gonna Rain Again (Ziggy Sessions Outtake)/Looking for a Friend (Ziggy Session Version)/Velvet Goldmine (Ziggy Sessions Outtake - 2022 Mix)/Sweet Head (Ziggy Session Outtake - 2022 Mix)/John, I'm Only Dancing (Alternative Trident Studios Version)/I Can't Explain (Trident Studios Version)

This disc is the most difficult to evaluate because who knows what “2022 Mix” or “2023 Mix” actually means or whether it’s a good thing or not.  I’m guessing that a chunk of this disc might come from the ‘Trident Tapes’ bootleg which may or may not have been tidied up and improved under the banner of a new mix but we’ll just have to wait and see!

Conclusions – My guess is that at best we are looking at a disc and half of stuff that we potentially haven’t heard before with little grounds for confidence that it will be in anything like pristine audio quality.   I hope that I am proved wrong because the ‘Ziggy’ album means so much to me that: a) I am simply going to have to buy this expensive box-set anyway, and, b) it would be criminal for such an iconic album to be shabbily commemorated.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2024-03-25 10:25:08(12 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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"Given the poor quality of the San Francisco Hotel recordings on the ‘Divine Symmetry’ release"

why thank you
:-@

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PortlandbillPosted at 2024-04-10 16:36:19(10 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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I am intrigued by So Long 60s (San Francisco Hotel Recording) does anyone think that this hs been left off the Songwriting demos plus 1st CD on the 2022 - Divine Symmetry (2022 NSR 4CD edition) which includes two other tracks fom the San Fran Hotel WFTM and QS. I feel this might have been done on purpose to spare us the indignity of listening to a poor recording. However saying that WFTM is slightly better than QS.

PB.

Last edited by Portlandbill on 2024-04-10 16:42:27




I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring.
   
I'm not a prophet or a stone aged man, just a mortal with potential of a superman. I'm living on.
 
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SteveboyDonatedPosted at 2024-04-10 18:15:20(10 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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Portlandbill wrote:

I am intrigued by So Long 60s (San Francisco Hotel Recording) does anyone think that this hs been left off the Songwriting demos plus 1st CD on the 2022 - Divine Symmetry (2022 NSR 4CD edition) which includes two other tracks fom the San Fran Hotel WFTM and QS. I feel this might have been done on purpose to spare us the indignity of listening to a poor recording. However saying that WFTM is slightly better than QS.PB.

Just reading the UNCUT mag review and apparently it ended up becoming Moonage Daydream If I remember correctly with different lyrics and yes from the same as source as Divine Symmetry.
Its worth buying the mag 12 pages on the box set.

Steveboy



NO DISCUSSION I JUST WANT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC
WANTED
FRANKFURT 1976
1978 REHEARSALS
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russellmaelPosted at 2024-04-19 17:49:01(9 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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Stranger09 wrote:

russellmael wrote:

The instrumental of Starman that the band mimed to on TOTP was recorded at Trident in June 1972. Musician Union rules of the day. It can be considered just another studio out take from the era for which they have the multitracks for so can remix it into stereo.

Where is that documented, Pegg's book? I had read that BBC musicians had to be involved due to those rules, but I think some artists managed to work around that sometimes.

It was discussed in the press release of the 2022 remix, which was an eye opener as for years it was assumed to be a remix of the album version (like the version on the Naked & Wired bootleg). A lot of people misunderstood what it was. Essentially, it was a brand new instrumental version of the track recorded for TOTP for Bowie to do live vocals over during the television recording. As those live vocals are 'burnt' into the mono performance clip, they added the lead vocal from the album version for its 2022 single release. I liked it, but for this new release it might have been nice to have it as the unadulterated instrumental.

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-04-20 02:45:13(9 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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deleted - dup post

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2024-04-20 02:46:02


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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-04-20 02:45:29(9 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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russellmael wrote:

Stranger09 wrote:

russellmael wrote:

The instrumental of Starman that the band mimed to on TOTP was recorded at Trident in June 1972. Musician Union rules of the day. It can be considered just another studio out take from the era for which they have the multitracks for so can remix it into stereo.

Where is that documented, Pegg's book? I had read that BBC musicians had to be involved due to those rules, but I think some artists managed to work around that sometimes.

It was discussed in the press release of the 2022 remix, which was an eye opener as for years it was assumed to be a remix of the album version (like the version on the Naked & Wired bootleg). A lot of people misunderstood what it was. Essentially, it was a brand new instrumental version of the track recorded for TOTP for Bowie to do live vocals over during the television recording. As those live vocals are 'burnt' into the mono performance clip, they added the lead vocal from the album version for its 2022 single release. I liked it, but for this new release it might have been nice to have it as the unadulterated instrumental.

Interesting - thank you for this.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2024-04-21 13:15:26(9 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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It's a new 'TV Track'
?
When the STS test mixes were about - Harry Maslin said the new backing tracks for the Cher TV show also had turned up.
None of these count as remixes...  :-*

Last edited by professormouse on 2024-04-21 13:15:55


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mythnormadmanPosted at 2024-04-22 22:38:27(8 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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Stranger09 wrote:

Steveboy wrote:

So is the San Fran track a left over from the previous release?? it seems strange that it appears on this release.I hope the BBC sessions on the 11th Jan is the correct version in excellent quality.Also strange no other Live show complete, just saying....

I thought the same thing, but I guess they're just tie-ing in what they see as the most relevant tracks to each expanded album release.They've not included My Death from Carnegie Hall. Ah well, we've got that in perfectly decent sound on bootleg. Wasn't Carnegie Hall the recording that existed but the "levels were all over the place" - which sort of made sense that only an acoustic track was deemed good enough to keep.The 11th Jan session is indeed finally around in decent-ish quality (seem to recall getting it through here) - I found that bringing the treble down on Waiting for the Man and Queen Bitch made the sound similar to any other 1972 session. If they are using these sort of sources, I so hope they master it decently. I do find on comparing CD releases in general (ie not just Bowie ones) that when the effort is actually made by the record company on mastering they tend to do a better job than people like us can do at home. Here's hoping they put the effort in .... (and that they don't blight it by near brickwalling it, some hope re the latter :( )

My Death from Carnegie Hall has been officially released on the b-side of the Groningen V&A Amsterdam single

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-04-23 05:53:32(8 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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mythnormadman wrote:

Stranger09 wrote:

Steveboy wrote:

So is the San Fran track a left over from the previous release?? it seems strange that it appears on this release.I hope the BBC sessions on the 11th Jan is the correct version in excellent quality.Also strange no other Live show complete, just saying....

I thought the same thing, but I guess they're just tie-ing in what they see as the most relevant tracks to each expanded album release.They've not included My Death from Carnegie Hall. Ah well, we've got that in perfectly decent sound on bootleg. Wasn't Carnegie Hall the recording that existed but the "levels were all over the place" - which sort of made sense that only an acoustic track was deemed good enough to keep.The 11th Jan session is indeed finally around in decent-ish quality (seem to recall getting it through here) - I found that bringing the treble down on Waiting for the Man and Queen Bitch made the sound similar to any other 1972 session. If they are using these sort of sources, I so hope they master it decently. I do find on comparing CD releases in general (ie not just Bowie ones) that when the effort is actually made by the record company on mastering they tend to do a better job than people like us can do at home. Here's hoping they put the effort in .... (and that they don't blight it by near brickwalling it, some hope re the latter :( )

My Death from Carnegie Hall has been officially released on the b-side of the Groningen V&A Amsterdam single

Thanks for the info.

That said, the practice of making one track only available on vinyl at £15-20 a pop (after postage etc) and not supposedly comprehensive (and again, expensive) box sets is one I deplore. :(

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MythicalkingDonatedPosted at 2024-04-23 13:52:09(8 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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As we all know, emerging out of the Ziggy era Bowie became fixated for a while on putting together a musical.  His intended 1984 extravaganza was thwarted by the Orwell estate and eventually metamorphosed into the ‘Diamond Dogs’ album.

The impending release of the ‘Rock’n’Roll Star’ box set started me thinking about what a Ziggy musical might have looked like had Bowie decided to go down that route earlier. Using the framework of the album and augmenting those 11 tracks with other contemporary Bowie recordings and previous songs with some relevance to the theme I came up with the following potential running order for the imagined production:

Five Years/Life On Mars/Soul Love/The Supermen/Moonage Daydream/Oh You Pretty Things/Lightning Frightning/Starman/It Ain’t Easy/Lady Stardust/Star/Queen Bitch/Hang On To Yourself/Round And Round/John I’m Only Dancing/Ziggy Stardust/The Man Who Sold The World/Sweet Head/Velvet Goldmine/Suffragette City/Holy Holy/Rock’n’Roll Suicide.

Just a fun exercise to tide me over as I await the release of the ‘Rock’n’Roll Star’ set but in some ways no more frivolous a waiting measure than the RSD ‘Waiting In The Sky’ release.

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russellmaelPosted at 2024-04-23 17:37:40(8 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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The early drafts of the album, the pre-Waiting In The Sky versions, featured songs not on this forthcoming boxset and it was mapped out as the actual story of a fictional band with each song charting their formation, stage show, groupies, fame, and split etc. These plans will be in the accompanying notebook.

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ayresPosted at 2024-04-24 17:00:55(8 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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I liked your information.
Do you remember if these songs were recorded in the studio and the name of any of them?

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jackhalloweenPosted at 2024-06-07 21:30:13(2 wks ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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Hallo mate, Sorry to be pedantic but your quote,
"I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring"
is wrong,i have seen it misquoted upteen times over the years and even seen people selling merchandise with it printed on.What Bowie actually said was, "I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't bore you"
See here:-

https://youtu.be/QXN7lFhymK0?feature=shared

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MoonyDonatedPosted at 2024-06-14 20:29:40(1 wk ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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i am skipping tru the box.. but i cant complain. its not the best.. but some really nice.. like 1 cd of stuff id probable listen to more often:)

even cant explain is very amazing and should have been the last track (atleast my thought for now:))

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EarlMahagersDonatedPosted at 2024-06-20 11:24:11(3 days ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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russellmael wrote:

The Spiders version of The Supermen is the one used on the Glastonbury Fayre album. It was on the Ryko Hunky Dory and ZS30 CD etc.

Same recording but the mix is very different on the Glastonbury Fayre release.

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-06-21 12:57:15(2 days ago) (Bowie General / Ziggy Box Track List)


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The box is a thing of beauty.

Honestly - the selection of photos for the book is top notch, better than I expected - no over-colourised album cover session pics (the album cover pics themselves were the 2 where they got that right, period). So no horrible Ziggy as giraffe pic from those session that always freaks me out (some of you will have noticed what I mean). It is well put together, and feels like a book one would pay a lot for on its own nowadays.

The notebook .... my, I went all tingly when seeing this. His original notes and plans roughly sketched out, mentions of songs he clearly abandoned, but formulated the ideas behind them into something else, if not then, later.

The content of the discs - yes, a lot of duplication from what I have before, but it's all collected together here. Yep, I know already, that when I go thruogh them I will find a lot of compression, which I don't like, but the presentation, the books, the things that are new to me, more than make up for that. It was not easy to afford, but I would not miss it for the world.

As mentioened before, I don't buy every box set, so despite being a big Beatles fan I didn't get the Revolver set and the possible Rubber Soul one (Iggy's favourite Beatles album, I was almost shocked when I read that!) won't be for me, I don't rate those albums enough, and the Lennon Imagine box set is more than I have time for.

But this Bowie release and the Hunky Dory one are essential to me.

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2024-06-21 12:58:51


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