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Bowie General > Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered]

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jdlyden1Posted at 2023-05-22 18:51:55(48 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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Live At Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered]

I've been working hard on the original tapes from the 2002 Montreux Jazz Festival to make them sound as good as possible.

As a taster, and a pre-release of the full show, please listen to 'Speed Of Life' below. Headphones recommended for the full experience.

Would appreciate your thoughts!

https://krakenfiles.com/view/Y7OPdhYzuk/file.html

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SteveboyDonatedPosted at 2023-05-23 07:31:22(48 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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Thats got a lot of beef to it and sounds really good, but tell me is it all going to be MP3??

Steveboy


NO DISCUSSION I JUST WANT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC
WANTED
FRANKFURT 1976
1978 REHEARSALS
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BallhausDonatedPosted at 2023-05-23 08:47:10(48 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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Sounds great. Hopefully flax 44khz/16bit to come

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homebrewPosted at 2023-05-23 21:49:56(48 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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It sounds fuller than the copy I have but Gods, I hope it's not all mp3 in the end.


""I don't begrudge any artist for finding an audience"
- David Bowie abt. 1987
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kanishknisharPosted at 2023-08-13 16:46:03(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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No updates?

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bofinken57Posted at 2023-08-13 16:56:13(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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jdlyden1 wrote:

Live At Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered]I've been working hard on the original tapes from the 2002 Montreux Jazz Festival to make them sound as good as possible. As a taster, and a pre-release of the full show, please listen to 'Speed Of Life' below. Headphones recommended for the full experience. Would appreciate your thoughts!https://krakenfiles.com/view/Y7OPdhYzuk/file.html

its hard to have opinion on this with a instrumental song, put up a sample of a track where bowie sings it would be more helpful

and to my ears this sound pretty much the same as my copy from the video that i remasterd, and to the other flac version i have remasterd of this show (and that is not on bowiestation)
but once again its better to hear a track with singing in it

Last edited by bofinken57 on 2023-08-13 17:02:13


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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-08-14 10:18:29(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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jdlyden1 wrote:

Live At Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered]I've been working hard on the original tapes from the 2002 Montreux Jazz Festival to make them sound as good as possible. As a taster, and a pre-release of the full show, please listen to 'Speed Of Life' below. Headphones recommended for the full experience. Would appreciate your thoughts!https://krakenfiles.com/view/Y7OPdhYzuk/file.html

I would be much more interested in a raw copy from the original tapes - the source.
Sorry to put a damper on things, but so many modern 'remasters' are butchered, usually by aggressive use of brickwall limiting for volume and sadly this is what I am hearing here (although this might be artefacts of the mp3, I don't think so). Why do this, please?
It's also based on an FM version by the look of the spectral response.....we have a 16k6 cutoff.

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SteveboyDonatedPosted at 2023-08-14 13:37:46(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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I thought the original sound for this was sourced from VHS tapes, not FM.

Steveboy


NO DISCUSSION I JUST WANT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC
WANTED
FRANKFURT 1976
1978 REHEARSALS
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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2023-08-14 14:27:48(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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'are VHS lossless'
?
my first reply was this
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/382921-Video-capturing-old-VHS-tapes-with-lossless-format

then they start talking about codecs 'n' camcorders

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bowie78Posted at 2023-08-14 20:30:56(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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i wonder about all this..flac,mp3 etc...in some ways does it matter,do all members here have high end player systems to actually get the best out of what were hearing?.[whatever format ].in my case listening with headphones over 45 years has probably dulled whatever listening expierence i might have...at the end of the day if super rare material im listening to in mp3...im not going yearn for it in super duper sound quality....but thats just me.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2023-08-14 22:16:28(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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you can't convert mp3 back into lossless

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BallhausDonatedPosted at 2023-08-15 06:48:57(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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If we look at the commonly used sound formats these days we have a range of
Hd audio 96k samples 24 bit
CD audio 44k samples 16 bit
Mp3/m4a of 320 or 256 kbps
Low-end mP3 of 128 kbps

I can easy hear the bad quality of a low end mp3.

But if I'm listening to a audience recording from the seventies I probably can't hear the difference between cd and 320 kbps mp3. What's determining the sound quality of a seventies recording is the recording equipment, the location of the Mike, the quality and the age of the tape and if it's a high/low generation of copy.

Hd audio is great for studio recordings.

In case of a 2002 live recording done with professional equiment I might be able to hear the difference between cd format and mp3 320 kbps. But I might be fooled.

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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-08-15 10:53:20(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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professormouse wrote:

'are VHS lossless' ?my first reply was thishttps://forum.videohelp.com/threads/382921-Video-capturing-old-VHS-tapes-with-lossless-formatthen they start talking about codecs 'n' camcorders

This depends on how you capture the VHS tape, and what the sound track was.
Some VHS had what they called 'HiFi Stereo' which was stored in analogue form (as were all VHS tapes) so it would be lossless, but that does not necessarily mean it's good quality of course.
Then there are the ADC used to capture the VHS - were these 16 or even 24-bit, or early ADC that may have had as little as 12 to 14-bits available for the audio, minus the LSB (Least Significant Bit) so take away 1-bit of dynamic range avbailable (-6dB).
It's easy to have the LSB actually being audible on '16-bit' recordings.

@Ballhaus.
24-bit should be the better part of the improvement, sample rate not so much so.
See above - 16-bit has 96dB of dynamic range, minus the LSB, minus the actual range of the ADC.
24-bit has 144dB dynamic range, minus the LSB, minus ADC fluff but should still be well over 122dB of dynamic range, meaning LSB noise & fluff should be inaudible.
Unless heavy limiting for volume and/or excessive compression was applied (usually bad digital) which reduces the upper limit of dynamic range and lifts the noise floor at the same time.

This is why I get irritated with mastering engineers who use brickwall limiting for volume.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2023-08-15 20:43:39(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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hearing changes over time
anyone in here had their ears syringed ?

"the sound can typically be heard by people below 25 years of age"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito

throw cassette masters and the ever giving RCA vs Ryko in the mix

eh ?

"The differences to be heard in contrast to the original RCA CDs are in no way subtle or minor.
These new discs sound alive and three-dimensional - the RCA discs sound like a cheap AM radio in comparison.
Instruments that were inaudible on the RCA discs are clearly heard here,
as are bits of echo and other effects totally absent from the original LP releases."

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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-08-16 09:47:53(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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Don't get me started on the RCA CD fiasco!
So many were from Umatic 16/44.1 digital backups, none from the tapes.

FWIW, I can hear the Mozzies.
Ears are like muscles, I think - use it or lose it.

I also have a serious issue with the current trend to push the ridiculous 192k sample rate as desirable. It simply isn't - if digitizing from tape you run headlong into the Biasing frequency problem, where tape recorders add an ultrasonic signal to 'stir the magnetic pot' and this will get captured at 192k sample rate - even though audio is non-existent at 96k frequency response, which is what a 192k sample rate gets you to, transferring at 192 and then downsampling for CD will alias that biasing frequency - potentially down into the audible range. It's madness.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2023-08-16 12:20:33(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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"U-matic was also used for the storage of digital audio data."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-matic

they ARE 'from the tapes'
technically
:D

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bowie78Posted at 2023-08-16 12:26:10(36 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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but doesnt it also depend on the quality of the equipement you use to listen with.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2023-08-18 10:25:22(35 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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there's a mosquito device to scare off children from shopping malls
if your over 30
you don't feel a thing
showers make your ears produce more wax
Bruce Forest once said no proper DJ would ever play an mp3 in a club

it's like best top tens etc = you will get a million answers
and just as many sales

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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-08-19 11:49:40(35 wks ago) (Bowie General / Live at Montreux Jazz Festival [Remastered])


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professormouse wrote:

"U-matic was also used for the storage of digital audio data."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-maticthey ARE 'from the tapes' technically :D

No, they are bloody well not.
That is sophistry - and I believe you know this well and are just yanking on my chain & like a fool I bite - as 'from the original tapes' usually and generally means from the original mix tape - in analogue. Not a dodgy 16-bit fragile as all hell backup that is probably from a cassette or VCM master in the first place.
16-bit digital in those days really sucked so badly in terms of dynamics, but I think I have already explained this.

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