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Bowie General > David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2022-09-23 13:01:29(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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If any 1976 show was filmed it was only in part - like the Paris one - or if it was in full, must have been destroyed because Bowie didn't like it?

Brett Morgan has been doing Q&As online and he said last night in answer to a question about whether film of complete 1974 or 1976 shows exists, he said, Yes to 1974, and rehearsals only to 1976.

Put it this way if it was fan footage of low quality footage all the way, the film would not have got into the cinemas or the publicity it's getting - that's why 'big film' put the clampers on him using anything other than concert footage where audio multitracks exist...

I would love to see more footage, including some 'rough footage' - did look at some the other night on youtube and did think though, certainly that was 'once only' viewing for me :). Brett has hinted there may be more Bowie archive footage at some point - he did not use those words, but in answers to recent questions about whether more Bowie visual projects or films may occur, he didn't feel overall film would, but did seem to state there would something more visually and that he might be involved. I almost felt like saying he and Nacho should team up :)

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stuartreedPosted at 2022-09-23 13:44:50(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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What about the RCA dress rehearsal? Surely there's a decent copy of that in the vaultsa

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2022-09-23 15:08:32(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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stuartreed wrote:

What about the RCA dress rehearsal? Surely there's a decent copy of that in the vaultsa

It probably does - Brett agreed it exists - he said 'rehearsal only' re 1976.

I meant no full show seems to have been recorded other than the rehearsal in 76. Shame really, but there you go.
:(

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homebrewPosted at 2022-09-23 23:27:14(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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Stranger09 wrote:

homebrew wrote:

Stranger09 wrote:

He did say in an interview online he was very restricted by what he could use - not due to 'the archive is closed / restricted' type reasons, it was because they wanted film where multitracks existed. I think that's because it's being promoted as a film with good sound, and promoted as an IMAX film firstly. He stated that's why certain moments people would expect to see are not there, or only briefly alluded to.I noted the mix on the last Ziggy film could still be better (in my opinion) on an excerpt I saw, though the sound itself was good, however I am trying to avoid seeing much of the film until I see it in full at my local (non IMAX) cinema.I know there are / will be things others have taken exception to - but it's the film / how it is, so going with an open mind when it comes round locally.

What about the de-mixing technology used in Peter Jackson's Get Back and Giles Martin's upcoming Beatles Revolver?

I don't know - I have put off getting Get Back as money has been very tight, and I read there's a possibility of it being expanded to a 12 disc version! That said, I don't know how realistic that really is and when it would happen (yep I know it would cost more, but it's the sort of thing I would dream of, and my finances are starting to improve) - so I might get the 6 disc version by xnas, or for that.As for Revolver - it's actually a box I will draw the line at. I collect so much, but there are some things I just to say too much time for too little reward. I love the Beatles, and a lot of Beatles solo stuff ... but the Revolver box is not for me, never been that struck on the album as a whole, despite liking a clutch of the tracks a lot.

My point was about the de-mixing tech used in those projects... not the projects themselves. Both of them used new AI technology to separate instruments and vocals that were originally all recorded on one track and make them into multi track where they could be manipulated individually. That would solve the problem of film where only multitracks existed as previously stated.


""I don't begrudge any artist for finding an audience"
- David Bowie abt. 1987
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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2022-09-24 01:54:07(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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homebrew wrote:

Stranger09 wrote:

homebrew wrote:

[quote=Stranger09] He did say in an interview online he was very restricted by what he could use - not due to 'the archive is closed / restricted' type reasons, it was because they wanted film where multitracks existed. I think that's because it's being promoted as a film with good sound, and promoted as an IMAX film firstly. He stated that's why certain moments people would expect to see are not there, or only briefly alluded to.I noted the mix on the last Ziggy film could still be better (in my opinion) on an excerpt I saw, though the sound itself was good, however I am trying to avoid seeing much of the film until I see it in full at my local (non IMAX) cinema.I know there are / will be things others have taken exception to - but it's the film / how it is, so going with an open mind when it comes round locally.

What about the de-mixing technology used in Peter Jackson's Get Back and Giles Martin's upcoming Beatles Revolver?

I don't know - I have put off getting Get Back as money has been very tight, and I read there's a possibility of it being expanded to a 12 disc version! That said, I don't know how realistic that really is and when it would happen (yep I know it would cost more, but it's the sort of thing I would dream of, and my finances are starting to improve) - so I might get the 6 disc version by xnas, or for that.As for Revolver - it's actually a box I will draw the line at. I collect so much, but there are some things I just to say too much time for too little reward. I love the Beatles, and a lot of Beatles solo stuff ... but the Revolver box is not for me, never been that struck on the album as a whole, despite liking a clutch of the tracks a lot.

My point was about the de-mixing tech used in those projects... not the projects themselves. Both of them used new AI technology to separate instruments and vocals that were originally all recorded on one track and make them into multi track where they could be manipulated individually. That would solve the problem of film where only multitracks existed as previously stated. [/quote] [/quote]

Yep, but when was the last time you saw the Get Back 6 hour documentary in your local cinema??


*That* is why he was not allowed to use any footage where multitracks do not exist. I know the technology exists to do a lot of things without multitracks - it's been around a while and utilised with varying degrees of success. The time needed to do it *well* is phenomenal. You can usually hear tell-tale signs which makes it very like hearing a 'replica' of what was played, often too squeaky clean too (again, depends on the care used by the person(s) doing the work.

Anyway it's a moot point because the decision makers and shakers behind the film drew a line in the sand, and Brett stated in interviews that is why some of the things people thought should be there were not.

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2022-09-24 01:55:32


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clarkgwentPosted at 2022-09-24 07:29:30(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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The jumpsuit footage is not live, it's from rehearsals in Vancouver, January 1976. From before the dress rehearsal footage which is more common.

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2022-09-24 08:27:16(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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Hmm - I guess the makers and shakers made certain exceptions  :-)   - probably brief footage?

One particular example stood out in the things he read - as far as I recall I think he said "that is why Starman from TOTP is not included" (re this multitracks existing thing).

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2022-09-24 08:27:32


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clarkgwentPosted at 2022-09-24 16:33:37(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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Re: Paris 1976 TF1 footage: it's actually from Brussels.

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2022-09-24 17:07:39(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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Cool - I didn't know that. Good to know, thanks.

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homebrewPosted at 2022-09-25 01:50:53(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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Stranger09 wrote:

Hmm - I guess the makers and shakers made certain exceptions  :-)   - probably brief footage? One particular example stood out in the things he read - as far as I recall I think he said "that is why Starman from TOTP is not included" (re this multitracks existing thing).

I haven't been able to find any interviews where he talks about these mulit-track requirements. I would very much like to find out more. Do you have links to the articles you've run across? TIA


""I don't begrudge any artist for finding an audience"
- David Bowie abt. 1987
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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2022-09-25 10:22:59(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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It was in a Q&A on Twitter - he has been doing a lot of promo on there. He'll post to say he's on a flight and can handle some questions. Certainly makes an effort to respond to all reasonable questions relating to the film that he can.

I did notice a couple of exceptions to the rule I think, but they were songs that only lasted 30 seconds or so anyway. The way he stated it suggested the rule applied to full songs - and certainly that seemed to be the case. I think the way he said it was 'they had to have 24 tracks' or similar technical term.

Oh by the way, seen the film now. I enjoyed it though there was a lot to take in over two hours - when I get it on dvd eventually I will probably prefer to watch it in pieces. There was some repetition in it ... I did find myself thinking Bowie wasn't the only person to change styles and move on, people were doing it in the 60s before him too. But still visually wonderful and a great approach to it ... I was thinking afterwards, with 20 or so albums, + live albums and live shows filmed, that's 30 hours AT LEAST of footage / songs to choose from ... what way is there to condense that into 2 hours that will please everyone ...

:)

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surflingDonatedPosted at 2022-09-26 09:28:59(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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Got to finally watch the film last night - not in an Imax Theatre unfortunately but on a smaller regular screen.
Really enjoyed it, the 140 minutes flew by, could have sat through another half hour easily.
It's certainly not for everyone, but it clearly is a labour of love - can't even imagine the amount of time they must have spent editing picture and sound.
I was with two female friends, one of whom didn't know any Bowie songs (!), and they both loved it.
I'll certainly try to watch it again on a big screen if I get the chance!
And then buy the BluRay  :D

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2022-09-26 10:45:01(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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The content may be Bowie but it is someone else's version of him.
It won't be the last.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks00gW3j030&lc=UgwYKxr8KjvCMW15VXV4AaABAg

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learmDonatedPosted at 2022-09-26 14:34:16(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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The film is very entertaining and it shows the most important part of Bowie's artistical work.
And of course this is shown from the director's view and under control of the Bowie estate.
For us, the fans, it is disappointing that only little really new stuff is shown.

But what is most missing for me is the person Bowie in its complete appearance.
There is not much about his life as a family man or his health problems in the 2000's, and not much about other persons like Lou Reed, Iggy Pop etc who had an impact on him or his influence on other persons.

So the film wants to create respect of Bowie's work but what is shown is not a real but an artificial person. Maybe this impression is what many people had of him as it was difficult to look under his shell. But there are many people who met him and they tell us from another Bowie, a very cordial and humorous person with whom you could have converstions about almost everything.

At the end the film left me a bit indifferent and didn't make a big impression on me.

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surflingDonatedPosted at 2022-09-26 17:45:55(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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Well, most of what you are missing was included in the BBC documentaries.
I read and heard a bunch of interviews by Brett Morgan and he explicitely did not want to make another genre typical linear documentary.
I see his film more as a work of art with the subject of Bowie, and as such I found it successful.

Interestingly the woman who was with me for the movie and did not know much at all about Bowie before said afterwards that she had a totally new appreciation of him. She was fascinated by many of his quotes.

So I guess Morgen must have done SOMETHING right  :)

It certainly made me want to revisit some of the older recordings that I had nod listened to in a while.

When I came home I listened to the Leon Suites and thought how great it might be if Morgan made a full length video for that recording! I think his sense of visuals would be perfect for such a project.

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2022-09-26 21:03:51(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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One thing I noticed was how awful he looked in the 1974 footage that was unseen - to me at least - where he was performing Rock and Roll with Me.

I think if the film had been made up footage like that which Bowie had unsurprisingly kept under wraps, I would have left feeling as ill as as he looked. :)

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2022-09-27 01:02:33


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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2022-09-27 01:02:10(135 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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I have just remembered one of the things that was the most important to me - Rock and Roll Suicide from Hammersmith in the film *finally* reinstated the original slightly squeaky but brilliant organ sound, instead of that horrible cheesy glitzy end of the pier organ sound they overdubbed on all the official releases to date.

A detail, certainly, but to me a very important one. Though some remixed elements that I am less keen on were present (mainly on Moonage Daydream), largely the Hammersmith 73 tracks sounded close-ish to the original mix. The guitar could still have been louder on All the Young Dudes - like it was on the original His Master's Voice lp (and the Live 1973 whatever it was called that was the very first from the FM tape) - but it does bring fresh hope that any further revamp of the Hammersmith 73 show for the 50th anniversary next year may be even closer to the original sound.

I do think the Jeff Jeck part not being used until now officially wasn't really due to his flares - I couldn't even see them, unless they were deliberately darkened out in the film - I suspect it's simply that he wasn't happy with his guitar part as a whole, there is an account of Earl Slick overdubbing parts like his in 1974 when they were mixing the tapes.

Anyway, for me at least another positive thing in / from the film there. :)

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CosmicJiveDonatedPosted at 2022-10-01 15:44:40(134 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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I loved the film for what it is. I think a lot of people are put off by the fact this isn't a more linear documentary going thru all the stages of his career.

Brett tried to focus on experiencing Bowie the artists. Well a certain aspect of the artist. Something Bowie worded himself in the opening quote about Nietzsche (The whole God Is Dead and the vacuum left behind in society because of that) and later with his view of rock stars as false gods and himself trying to make sense of the chaos in modern society. I think Brett did a wonderful job of using chaos as a theme in this film with all the musical cut ups, additional sounds effects and visual cues throughout. It really is an experience!

I also wished Brett used more 90s and post 90s work or rare unseen stuff from the vault. But the film didn't need it. In regard to the narrative it's fitting that it starts and more or less finishes with Hallo Spaceboy. And it also really made me appreciate the footage shot for the Ricochet film in Asia. Beautiful and alienating shots!

The soundtrack as a standalone is horrible though. It works in the context of the film, but apart from a couple of songs it doesn't do anything for me.

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2022-10-02 04:10:29(134 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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I have heard some of the tracks from the soundtrack album. I was particularly interested in the Hammersmith 73 tracks as they sounded very good in the film - pretty close to the original mix.

Frustratingly, the mixes on the soundtrack album are not the same as the film, at least for the Hammersmith 73 tracks. These sound pretty much the same as the 2002 audio LP / CD release mixes. So we're back to - for now - one mix of that for a film, one for audio release. Oh, and The Jean Genie does not have that same big bass sound as the other tracks either or as loud as in the film. Stepping aside that I'm not normally fond of the modern bolstering of bass (this was only noticeable in the film on Heroes from Earl's Court, of all tracks), it is odd if the official version of this song is going to have quieter bass and a different mix from the other tracks.

Those who seem to blame the director for everything can't lay the blame on him for that imo - that seems to be the record company's doing, again. :(

On the bright-ish side, any re-reissue / further revamp of the Hammersmith 73 concert - which is at least 50% likely now given the sanctioning of releasing The Jean Genie audio and video - *might* put some of the above right.

I hope ...

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2022-10-02 10:41:11(134 wks ago) (Bowie General / David Bowie MOONAGE DAYDREAM ........... Feelings)


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Have you entered the free prize draw for a Bowie Barbie Doll yet ?
The new Hunky Dory set has titles I've never heard of on it.
What's next ?

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