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Bowie General > New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974

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ayresPosted at 2025-02-07 21:21:32(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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From what I understand, there are 4 reels in Drexel and this collector, named Max ,has 3 more reels. He could have at least made available an excerpt of the versions in which Luther sings. I watched the YouTube video hoping that he would make something available, but no... just some stories that didn't interest me and few details about the recordings. Unlike the reel with Lazer, which the eBay seller sold the audio to some collectors, these reels were only sent to Carlos Alomar, Visconti and some fans in Philadelphia.
So unless some of this material is officially released in about 5 years, it will remain in the hands of a few people.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2025-02-11 16:54:50(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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Springsteen, Lennon and Bowie all mentioned in the same sentence
that's why there's no clips
everyone's thinking of 'theoretically' how much /this/some of it/ could/will make
they CAN'T make anything available
& are at pains to point out
"they'd never work again"

don't hold your breath

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gousterPosted at 2025-02-11 23:21:07(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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ayres wrote:

From what I understand, there are 4 reels in Drexel and this collector, named Max ,has 3 more reels. He could have at least made available an excerpt of the versions in which Luther sings. I watched the YouTube video hoping that he would make something available, but no... just some stories that didn't interest me and few details about the recordings. Unlike the reel with Lazer, which the eBay seller sold the audio to some collectors, these reels were only sent to Carlos Alomar, Visconti and some fans in Philadelphia.So unless some of this material is officially released in about 5 years, it will remain in the hands of a few people.

As I pointed out to you in a previous post, your information is incorrect and misleading...

I have been to Drexel University several times and can tell you for fact that they do not have 4 reels in their possession. I did detail the recordings they hold on my website - The Young American - before I shut it down late last year (because of lack of interest). However, if anyone would like to know (or be reminded), they can either message me or reply to this post.

I have been in discussion with "Max" via Zoom and can tell you that he is not a "collector" but is involved in the music business. He actually has 4 reels and I can tell you for fact that he has not shared these with anyone. He did reach out to the people you mentioned for help but only supplied them with details of the recordings. He has also shared those details with me and, as above, I will share them with anyone who is interested.

I also happen to know the full story behind the leaked Sigma tape in 2009 but will not make it public. However, I will say that the guy who had the reel with Lazer etc also had another reel and he was looking to sell both of them - which he was perfectly entitled to do. But he crossed the line when he made the recordings available and was then threatened with legal action if he didn't give up the tapes. Max isn't looking to sell the tapes so he has no reason to go down the same path.

Finally, for what it's worth, it's my personal belief that none of these recordings will ever be officially released.

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korupt1Posted at 2025-02-12 00:05:17(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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these extra reels have been heard by no-one until now, this would be different material that was given to Drexal.

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2025-02-12 02:23:13(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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gouster wrote:

As I pointed out to you in a previous post, your information is incorrect and misleading...I have been to Drexel University several times and can tell you for fact that they do not have 4 reels in their possession. I did detail the recordings they hold on my website - The Young American - before I shut it down late last year (because of lack of interest). However, if anyone would like to know (or be reminded), they can either message me or reply to this post.I have been in discussion with "Max" via Zoom and can tell you that he is not a "collector" but is involved in the music business. He actually has 4 reels and I can tell you for fact that he has not shared these with anyone. He did reach out to the people you mentioned for help but only supplied them with details of the recordings. He has also shared those details with me and, as above, I will share them with anyone who is interested.I also happen to know the full story behind the leaked Sigma tape in 2009 but will not make it public. However, I will say that the guy who had the reel with Lazer etc also had another reel and he was looking to sell both of them - which he was perfectly entitled to do. But he crossed the line when he made the recordings available and was then threatened with legal action if he didn't give up the tapes. Max isn't looking to sell the tapes so he has no reason to go down the same path.Finally, for what it's worth, it's my personal belief that none of these recordings will ever be officially released.

Ah, shame about your site needing to be shut down.

I did like it a lot, and looked over it ever so often. I do understand however, that there are costs and admin involved, so I respect your decision.

Re the 1974 recordings, if they will never be released, that can happen. What I have heard did not work for me, mostly. I got the impression that it took a while to successfully form the winning sound of Young Americans. There are other Bowie demo recordings I have enjoyed more, but it is a personal taste thing.

Also re recordings not coming out, I expect Bowie vetoed Glastonbury 71 ever coming out. I did hope it might happen, but we can't get everything we want.

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2025-02-12 02:24:02


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gousterPosted at 2025-02-12 11:59:49(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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[/quote] Ah, shame about your site needing to be shut down.I did like it a lot, and looked over it ever so often. I do understand however, that there are costs and admin involved, so I respect your decision.Re the 1974 recordings, if they will never be released, that can happen. What I have heard did not work for me, mostly. I got the impression that it took a while to successfully form the winning sound of Young Americans. There are other Bowie demo recordings I have enjoyed more, but it is a personal taste thing. Also re recordings not coming out, I expect Bowie vetoed Glastonbury 71 ever coming out. I did hope it might happen, but we can't get everything we want. [/quote]

Thanks for your comments. I was very proud of my website which lasted for more than 20 years before I pulled the plug. It was actually created from thousands of hours of research by myself and another collector which involved writing to various institutions, speaking to people who were there at the time, visiting key places (eg Sigma Sound, the Tower, Drexel) and spending lots of money on magazines and memorabilia. So, it was based upon fact and not "rumours and lies and stories they made up".

However, I would be frequently frustrated by information on various Bowie sites which is untrue. Some of it has been around for years and has become folklore, but most of it began as assumptions. This is where my site failed to convince - maybe because people didn't look at it or, if they did, that the truth wasn't as exciting as the untruth. Anyway, it's time to get off of my high horse and let things be.

I personally love the 1974 recordings as they show the creativity of Bowie in the studio and the development of the songs. They are a million miles away from the songs that eventually appeared on the Young Americans album so I can perfectly understand how they may not be to everyone's taste. Regarding the release of demos etc, I think that Bowie was a perfectionist who wouldn't allow anything to be released unless he was 100% content with it. I'm sure that he left instructions as to what could or couldn't be released after his passing but it's whether the Estate choose to respect those or not. The recent Hunky Dory and Ziggy Stardust boxsets suggest that there may be some maneuverability!

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ayresPosted at 2025-02-12 13:27:48(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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I'll tell you what I know about Reel with Lazer.
I was told that the mp3 files were sold for 1000 to some collectors...but probably someone will say I'm lying.
Anyway that's what I was told

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bowie78Posted at 2025-02-12 13:33:27(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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Chris...I hadnt know you had finished with your site...I want to thank you for the time,effort and money you spent over the years in dedication for that period.many,many thanks ..Mike.

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gousterPosted at 2025-02-12 13:58:21(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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ayres wrote:

I'll tell you what I know about Reel with Lazer.I was told that the mp3 files were sold for 1000 to some collectors...but probably someone will say I'm lying.Anyway that's what I was told

That is quite correct... 1000 USD!

Last edited by gouster on 2025-02-12 14:03:07


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gousterPosted at 2025-02-12 13:59:13(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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bowie78 wrote:

Chris...I hadnt know you had finished with your site...I want to thank you for the time,effort and money you spent over the years in dedication for that period.many,many thanks ..Mike.

Thank you Mike! I hope that you are keeping well.

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bowie78Posted at 2025-02-12 14:33:30(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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chris...are you going to any of the DAM trio concerts...im going to Bristol...

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gousterPosted at 2025-02-12 15:08:57(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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bowie78 wrote:

chris...are you going to any of the DAM trio concerts...im going to Bristol...

Mike... I've sent you a PM.

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ayresPosted at 2025-02-12 16:16:37(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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I'm glad you confirmed my information...
As for the 5 Drexel reels, I got confused.
Actually, there are 4, reel 1, reel 2, reel 4 and reel rehearsals.
For some reason, I thought they had recovered reel 3, but that really didn't happen.

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ayresPosted at 2025-02-12 16:24:41(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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about the myths of that time... you refer to Too Fat Polka and David himself confirmed to you that he never recorded it, but due to the discovery of the song Rubes, which no one believed existed either, I'll wait for the release of a boxset from that period to confirm or not.
I would like your opinion on the song Growin Up, for me it always sounded like it was recorded in the Sigma sessions or at least after the D.Dogs sessions.

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gousterPosted at 2025-02-12 21:26:57(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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ayres wrote:

I'm glad you confirmed my information...As for the 5 Drexel reels, I got confused.Actually, there are 4, reel 1, reel 2, reel 4 and reel rehearsals.For some reason, I thought they had recovered reel 3, but that really didn't happen.

Drexel have one physical 2" reel (which is the one that contains Lazer) which they have digitised. They also have digital versions of two other 2" reels, the physical reels are with the Bowie Estate. They also have a quarter-inch tape (seemingly recorded unofficially by Sigma staff) which contains Ava Cherry, Robin Clark and Luther Vandross performing backing vocals for 'Who Can I Be Now' and 'John, I'm Only Dancing (Again)' - approximately 45 minutes of each.

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gousterPosted at 2025-02-12 21:38:32(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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ayres wrote:

about the myths of that time... you refer to Too Fat Polka and David himself confirmed to you that he never recorded it, but due to the discovery of the song Rubes, which no one believed existed either, I'll wait for the release of a boxset from that period to confirm or not.I would like your opinion on the song Growin Up, for me it always sounded like it was recorded in the Sigma sessions or at least after the D.Dogs sessions.

I personally think that all of the songs recorded at Sigma in August and November are now known and documented. For me, the big unknown was always the November sessions but the recent find has clarified this now.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that Growin' Up was recorded during the Astronettes sessions. I have seen and heard the original recordings, but can say no more than that!

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ayresPosted at 2025-02-12 22:18:38(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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I really appreciate this information
Bowie's vocals betray my ears sometimes
As an educated guess I would say you were invited to listen to material that may or may not be released in an upcoming boxset
Am I wrong?
I would like you to reactivate your website but I know it is not financially viable for you
There is no more fascinating period than January 73 to November 74


Last edited by ayres on 2025-02-12 23:59:35


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gousterPosted at 2025-02-13 06:17:50(11 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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ayres wrote:

I really appreciate this informationBowie's vocals betray my ears sometimesAs an educated guess I would say you were invited to listen to material that may or may not be released in an upcoming boxsetAm I wrong?I would like you to reactivate your website but I know it is not financially viable for youThere is no more fascinating period than January 73 to November 74

No, I'm not involved in any upcoming boxsets etc. I just happen to know some interesting people!

Personally, I'm not expecting any special releases for either Diamond Dogs or Young Americans.

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ayresPosted at 2025-02-13 11:32:08(10 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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I imagined that this material would be documented on video and I thank you again for your information
I hope that the estate also has this material and releases the audio somehow
Sometimes I think that collectors have more interesting things than them
If you want to tell us about any interesting facts about these recordings with Astronettes, it would be great to know

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100PCBPosted at 2025-02-13 12:18:28(10 wks ago) (Bowie General / New recording - Sigma Sound Studios in 1974)


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https://web.archive.org/web/20220310215421/http://theyoungamerican.co.uk/sigma_sound_aug_sessions.htm

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