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Bowie General > 2001 Toy Album

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CraigVPosted at 2020-07-30 11:15:17(248 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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For those of you that missed the link to the Toy album that I put on the Shoutbox here it is:

https://mega.nz/folder/9XonEL5a#_6WJaqs55e8uNdSHxhBkYA

Enjoy!

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SteveboyDonatedPosted at 2020-07-30 13:09:08(248 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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So is this the one from that website I put in the shout box???

Steveboy


NO DISCUSSION I JUST WANT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC
WANTED
FRANKFURT 1976
1978 REHEARSALS
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CraigVPosted at 2020-07-30 15:03:46(248 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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Steveboy.  I am not sure where I downloaded it from.  I have looked at the properties and I downloaded it on 8th May 2018 which is obviously after the 2017 special edition that you linked.  However, I am pretty certain I did not download it from the "facingthestranger.com" website.  It must have been from either Traders' Den or Guitars 101.

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CraigVPosted at 2020-07-31 09:51:52(248 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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CraigV wrote:

Steveboy.  I am not sure where I downloaded it from.  I have looked at the properties and I downloaded it on 8th May 2018 which is obviously after the 2017 special edition that you linked.  However, I am pretty certain I did not download it from the "facingthestranger.com" website.  It must have been from either Traders' Den or Guitars 101.

I have just downloaded the 2017 edition from the "facingthestranger.com" website and it is very different to the copy I linked above.  Firstly, the tracks are individual wav files and the whole album is 1.18GB as opposed to my original copy which is flac and 410MB.  Secondly, I ran Lossless Audio Checker on the 2017 edition and all tracks came back as "clean" which suggests that no messing about has occurred.  It would be intersting if willb3d could run his frequency checks on the 2017 edition.

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PortlandbillPosted at 2020-07-31 19:37:33(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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Okay...Interesting...I have been harbouring an old copy for many years aquired around 2011 ish, can't be sure, ran frequency checks and used the old version of AudioChecker and came back as all MPEG based.

Later, much later I discovered the vinyl Edition here at BS which comprises of 11 tracks that I checked with AudioChecker that came back positive of all tracks CDDA....great.

Now this revelation, Dl'd the above version @
https://mega.nz/folder/9XonEL5a#_6WJaqs55e8uNdSHxhBkYA

checked with the same old version of AudioChecker and to my surprise came back as all tracks CDDA..terrific...thanks.

I thought that this would never surface as rumour has it, I may be talking out of my A*** but I understood that Mark Plati had lost the original files along with the laptop they were on. Consequently for years we all had the MPEG version.

PB.


I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring.
   
I'm not a prophet or a stone aged man, just a mortal with potential of a superman. I'm living on.
 
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paulybaulsDonatedPosted at 2020-07-31 20:23:41(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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Don't want to burst the bubble, but the linked version here is the lossy version (as is the vinyl rip, as anything above 16KHz is the result of distortion and not 'real' information); but, there is a band of noise at around 19.7KHz (which doesn't really mean a thing) on the downloaded version.

We will have to wait until these new copies arrive and see.

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paulybaulsDonatedPosted at 2020-07-31 20:40:20(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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Also the cassette wav is lossy and full of noise

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SteveboyDonatedPosted at 2020-08-01 08:46:08(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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paulybauls wrote:

Also the cassette wav is lossy and full of noise

The cassette version I downloaded from the facing the stranger in Lossless audio checker came up as 100% clean.

Steveboy


NO DISCUSSION I JUST WANT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC
WANTED
FRANKFURT 1976
1978 REHEARSALS
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paulybaulsDonatedPosted at 2020-08-01 09:13:19(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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Steveboy wrote:

paulybauls wrote:

Also the cassette wav is lossy and full of noise

The cassette version I downloaded from the facing the stranger in Lossless audio checker came up as 100% clean.Steveboy

It is easy to fool the program. I have just successfully tricked the program into thinking the lossy version is lossless (clean). All I had to do was simply add pink noise across the entire spectrum at -25dB and a 50hz hum at -20dB (just to try and get a similar sound to the 'cassette', the hum isn't even needed to trick the program in fact). Anyone can try it, just use the fake flac or MP3 in audacity and export as wav once you're done adding the noise in.

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PorrohmanDonatedPosted at 2020-08-01 10:18:24(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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I looked at the casstte and LP spectrums using Adobe Audition, nothing above 16Khz, but like others have found it reports as 100% lossless.

I'm off to listen to my 24/96 rip of the Friday Music double album release of Outside...

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CraigVPosted at 2020-08-02 10:58:31(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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paulybauls; Why would you want to fool a program that you are using to try and establish whether music is lossless or lossy?  It does not make any sense!

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LjohnfoxxPosted at 2020-08-02 11:58:15(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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Seems like a lot of hassle to try and trick folks, into believing a lossy file is lossless.

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paulybaulsDonatedPosted at 2020-08-02 22:32:27(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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CraigV wrote:

paulybauls; Why would you want to fool a program that you are using to try and establish whether music is lossless or lossy?  It does not make any sense!

To prove it can be done [easily] and not to take it as it is given, at least not all the time. Makes perfect sense to me!

Ljohnfoxx wrote:

Seems like a lot of hassle to try and trick folks, into believing a lossy file is lossless.

Only took 2 minutes ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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SteveboyDonatedPosted at 2020-08-02 23:24:43(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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So I’ve been thinking about how the guy on the Facing the stranger website [or anybody else for that matter] could get the TOY tracks to be tested as CLEAN lossless tracks and I’ve come up with this theory.

Record the digital tracks from computer back to a tape deck, no Dolby so a little hiss will maybe added.
Transfer the tape back to a digital source as WAVE files.
Question – when these tracks are checked for MPEG would they come back as CLEAN lossless, but still showing nothing above 16Khz – Answers on a postcard please.

Just a theory that I may try

Steveboy


NO DISCUSSION I JUST WANT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC
WANTED
FRANKFURT 1976
1978 REHEARSALS
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PortlandbillPosted at 2020-08-03 00:23:29(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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@ Steveboy

Maybe....have listened to alternate versions and the latter/newer version sounds a little louder and more clearer.....would it also have that affect ??

Regards PB.


I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring.
   
I'm not a prophet or a stone aged man, just a mortal with potential of a superman. I'm living on.
 
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SteveboyDonatedPosted at 2020-08-03 02:46:35(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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Portlandbill wrote:

@ SteveboyMaybe....have listened to alternate versions and the latter/newer version sounds a little louder and more clearer.....would it also have that affect ??Regards PB.

I'll ask Mr Wilkes tomorrow


NO DISCUSSION I JUST WANT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC
WANTED
FRANKFURT 1976
1978 REHEARSALS
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ayresPosted at 2020-08-03 21:40:42(247 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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I only believe it if it is technically proven, trusting people's ears is very subjective

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neilwilkesPosted at 2020-08-26 17:47:28(244 wks ago) (Bowie General / 2001 Toy Album)


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Steveboy wrote:

Portlandbill wrote:

@ SteveboyMaybe....have listened to alternate versions and the latter/newer version sounds a little louder and more clearer.....would it also have that affect ??Regards PB.

I'll ask Mr Wilkes tomorrow

Sadly it is all too possible to fool tools that check for lossy sources.
What is interesting about the recently surfaced 'cassette tape' version is that the tracks are in a different order to the 'Godfather' version, the 'Lego' version and - oddly - the recent Italian version.
Also, the Italian CD version just released - the one stating it is from analogue tape - is testing as mpeg lossy with 95-100% certainty too (Traders Little Helper) plus it has the 'traditional' running order, whereas the cassette one is changed. But - and for me this is a giveaway - the frequency response shows this is from a lossy source. Take a look in a spectrum analyzer, and you will see the original 16kHz cutoff point with some extra response above this in places, which all tells me that the CD at least is not lossless. Whilst the cassette source seems different, it really isn't & it is my best guess that the source is the original MP3 versions put to tape.

Fooling a checker can be done - it's not hard - but the CD version supposedly from the analogue tape is definitely lossy source.

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