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Bowie General > Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie

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kanishknisharPosted at 2023-07-29 17:26:02(39 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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And it's a huge headache. Unlike some artists, EPs and singles have things that aren't a part of boxed sets and sometimes things included on albums as bonus tracks are different mixes than what's released on official boxed sets (Toy era stuff) so it's really difficult to get everything.

Q1. The 2021 Shadow Man single has something called the Early Mix. Is this distinct from what has been issued on either the 2007 Heathen Japan bonus disc, the Toy.Box or the 2022 Toy You've Got It Made EP?

Q2. I've downloaded the following EPs and Singles as they are not part of any of the boxed sets released from 2015 (when reissuing started), post-2000s EPs or the Heathen 2007 Japan bonus disc:

a) Bowie 1965! (2013 Record Store Day)
b) The Toy Soldier EP [feat. The Riot Squad] (2013) [Is the Silly Boy distinct from that what is included on Heathen Disc 2?]
c) Space Oddity 40th Anniversary (2009) [not including Mono Single Edit and 1979 re-recording as they were included in the retrospective boxed sets; are the mixes different?]

Q3. https://www.discogs.com/master/53950-David-Bowie-Dont-Be-Fooled-By-The-Name

Is this something not included in any of the albums or EPs I haven't mentioned already?



Last edited by kanishknishar on 2023-07-29 17:56:11


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EarlMahagersDonatedPosted at 2023-07-29 17:46:17(39 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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Q1: Answer:

Shadow Man [Demo] aka 'Early Mix or Early Version' from Shadow Man digital single is the same version included on Divine Symmetry. However, it's post-1969. It has not been released outside of these two official titles as of yet.

The 2007 Heathen bonus disc version is the 2000 Visconti Mix / Alternative Mix [Toy Disc 2]

The version on You've Got It Made is an exclusive different mix of the 2000 recording.

http://www.illustrated-db-discography.nl/SongS.htm#S



Last edited by EarlMahagers on 2023-07-29 17:53:08


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EarlMahagersDonatedPosted at 2023-07-29 17:52:29(39 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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Q2: Answers:

a) What's the question?
b) Yes
c) Yes

See here: http://www.illustrated-db-discography.nl/SongS.htm#S

Last edited by EarlMahagers on 2023-07-29 17:53:30


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EarlMahagersDonatedPosted at 2023-07-29 18:01:29(39 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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A3: Yes

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kanishknisharPosted at 2023-07-29 18:15:40(39 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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EarlMahagers wrote:

Q2: Answers:a) What's the question?

That it is not part of any of the things I've listed.

EarlMahagers wrote:

A3: Yes

I didn't mention this earlier but not even on Nothing Has Changed?

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EarlMahagersDonatedPosted at 2023-07-29 18:29:05(39 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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This is hard work - and not even a 'thank you'  :?

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kanishknisharPosted at 2023-07-29 18:32:58(39 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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EarlMahagers wrote:

This is hard work - and not even a 'thank you'  :?

Oh gosh. Sorry. I didn't mean to sound ungrateful. Thank you for all your help, Earl!

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EarlMahagersDonatedPosted at 2023-07-29 18:37:46(39 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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'Cant Help Thinking' is the same 1966 version on NHC and DBFBTN

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gousterPosted at 2023-07-30 13:14:34(39 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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Bowie pre-1969 is an absolute minefield. I live in hope that one day someone will publish a comprehensive list of recordings with recording dates etc.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2023-07-30 18:04:49(39 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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Have got the 'Early On 1964-1966' CD ?

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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-07-31 12:06:20(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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professormouse wrote:

Have got the 'Early On 1964-1966' CD ?

That's the 17-track official release isn't it?

A better one is the first from the 'David Bowie Archive Series' of Jap bootlegs:
1964-1966 The Big Attraction (25 tracks plus 2 interviews of Pre-Deram singles & acetates with alternate takes & mixes on a fair number of the tracks too) I am not sure if this would be permitted here....
There is also the 'Conversation Piece' release (yes, the mastering could - and should - be better) and

It's also worth mentioning that anything which later appeared on the 3-disc package of 'Toy' that was on bonus tracks from Heathen or anything else will be a different mastering.
Trying to sort out all the alternate masters, mixes & versions of 'Toy' is a lot of work and could easily fill up a DVD all on it's own - one day I will get around to this.
The 24/96 versions are a great set to have too - but they needed de-limiting because of brickwalling for volume, plus it seems that each of the 3 sets in this are all from different sample rate sources.....some are genuine 96k mixes, others are either 48k or even 44.1k that were 'remastered' at 24/96.

I still think that 'Toy' does not get the love & merit it deserves - it's not what the haters claim, but instead it is a live band in the studio having a lot of FUN, and isn't that what matters? They are also really good re-recordings as well. I always thought that the live band versions were far better than the studio recordings, and this was true for the songs on both 'Heathen' as well as 'Reality' - the version of 'Reality' from Riverside Studios (a bonus DVD on one of the many Reality versions) is in all ways better than the studio recordings for me.
But - yet again - I digress.
Sorry about that.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2023-07-31 15:37:14(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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Toy was what the-next-album was to be called b4 9/11 I thought ?

Censored Censored's movie cost the label $300 million...and that's why a bunch of re-recorded oldies stayed in the can.
Heathen is the reheated remixed [re-recorded ?] version ??

Early On is the 10'' EP tracks and a bunch of Shel Talmy 'finds' ???
Though supposedly two are different takes.
It's official and I've found that 'silver' discs means nothing.
1964-1966 The Big Attraction has 'speed corrected' trax on it....which are from here ?
It's no guarantee your getting a lossless file = unless you know different ??

Bunny Thing etc were asked for with the Deram release but he said no ?
There has to be more on a shelf somewhere.
Or in another breadbin.

Last edited by professormouse on 2023-07-31 15:39:11


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ayresPosted at 2023-07-31 17:16:33(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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Where's Ernie Johnson tracks?

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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-08-01 13:19:10(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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Quote:

[/quote] [quote=professormouse] Toy was what the-next-album was to be called b4 9/11 I thought ?Censored Censored's movie cost the label $300 million...and that's why a bunch of re-recorded oldies stayed in the can.Heathen is the reheated remixed [re-recorded ?] version ??Early On is the 10'' EP tracks and a bunch of Shel Talmy 'finds' ???Though supposedly two are different takes.It's official and I've found that 'silver' discs means nothing.1964-1966 The Big Attraction has 'speed corrected' trax on it....which are from here ?It's no guarantee your getting a lossless file = unless you know different ??Bunny Thing etc were asked for with the Deram release but he said no ?There has to be more on a shelf somewhere.Or in another breadbin.

No idea what you're talking about with movies here - utterly mystified.

My understanding of 'Toy' was that Sony (who were in charge) refused tio release an album full of tracks that had someone else's copyrights or publishing involved. This may well be wrong, of course.

I know what 'Early On' is - I have a copy. Nothing new there.
Just because it's Rhino doesn't necessarily means it is from lossless sources either - but I know what you mean & fully understand the point.
Various other 'Official' releases include these:
Love You Till Tuesday (Pickwick)
1966 (6 tracks on Castle Classics)
1966 (same as above but in a different order & claiming to be from Pye masters by Steve Hoffman and all mono versions)
It's the same cash cow repeatedly getting milked - there is even a 'deluxe edition' of 2CD's with the Deram stuff, one disc in mono & t'other in what sounds suspiciously like electronic fake stereo.

Oh, when will I ever learn?

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MoonyDonatedPosted at 2023-08-01 13:28:25(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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ayres wrote:

Where's Ernie Johnson tracks?

lost?

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2023-08-02 19:26:38(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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Shadow Man (Early Version) is the '71 Outtake version given an official release
it was on The Trident Tapes & Freddi And The Dreamer bootlegs
everything else is the Toy re-recordings in various mixes

ernie johnson is a early musical on tape
loads of songs
it will never be released 'coz at least one of the songs uses racist language
''apparently''

Bowie says in one interview that a certain pop singer's flop musical lost A LOT of money
so they were recouping some of it by curtailing a lot of their 'planned' releases
i'd say her name again but it blanks out - her nickname [and one of her LP's] is 'Mimi'
'Glitter' was a movie that bombed
[an American Sam Fox type who dog-whistles on some of her tunes]
ring any bells now ?
Toy was one of them that never happened at the time

the phrase 'Bowie Album' lights up the internet
New Bowie Album even more so
Gouster had several puff pieces about in the music press
even though everything on it was previously released

i was asking him IF he had a copy of 'Early On'
the supposed difference to '1966' is two of the tracks are somehow different
and two of the tracks on Early On aren't lossless - the rest are

1966 & Don't Be Fooled By The Name have the same tracks
the David Bowie stereo/mono versions CD has 'folded down' [?] tracks

there's meant to be an Italian release with the genuine mixes
but it's his Anthony Newley era and nobody really cares
:-@

Last edited by professormouse on 2023-08-02 19:59:51


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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-08-03 12:01:17(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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Gotcha.
I know exactly who you mean now.

Whilst I understand the point being made only too well, I would dispute that all the 'Gouster' mixes had been previously released though. I'll check.

'Early On' - apologies for misunderstanding what you wrote there (the 2 MPEG tracks are 'I Want My Baby Back' & 'Bars Of The County Jail' - just for information to others as you obviously already know this). The 'DBAS01' release (The Big Attraction) tests as CD-DA for everything except 'I Never Dreamed' which is supposedly a 'Kon-Rads' demo. Well - an excerpt. At least, I can only find this in excerpts - 13 seconds, 1:16, etc so it doesn't really matter I reckon. I just wish bootleggers would stop with this excerpts bollocks - all it succeeds in doing is winding people up.

'Folded Down' should mean 'fake mono from stereo' I would guess.
Which seems kinda pointless to me.
That said, my Deram 2CD version doesn't say 'folded down' unless it is well hidden, or else I am going blind with advancing senility (all possible)

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2023-08-03 13:06:55(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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My understanding is fold down is liternally the stereo version combined as one track, as opposed to the actual mono mix that was made and used at the time of release. So yep you've pretty much got it right.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2023-08-03 14:47:02(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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there's 3 alternate versions of songs you already have on 'The Gouster'
clip and snippet means it's ripped from youtube
no it doesn't 'say' folded down
it says mono
in the same article [online] it said there IS genuine mono versions
supposedly on an Italian record of it


Last edited by professormouse on 2023-08-03 14:50:25


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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-08-05 11:58:29(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Trying to download everything pre-69 Bowie)


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professormouse wrote:

i
t doesn't 'say' folded downit says monoin the same article [online] it said there IS genuine mono versionssupposedly on an Italian record of it

I didn't say 'folded down' - you did!

professormouse wrote:

the David Bowie stereo/mono versions CD has 'folded down' [?] tracksthere's meant to be an Italian release with the genuine mixesbut it's his Anthony Newley era and nobody really cares :-@



Last edited by neilwilkes on 2023-08-05 11:59:16


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