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Bowie General > Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!

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MythicalkingDonatedPosted at 2024-06-14 09:09:29(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Downloaded a copy of Rock'n'Roll Star! from Exystence to get an early listen as I await delivery of my copy from Amazon.  It's telling that there is 3CDs worth of material (3hrs 48 mins) spaced out over 5 CDs to try to justify the £150 price tag. Personally I would have preferred to have had the mainstay of the Blu-ray content taking up those extra 2CDs with the Blu-Ray just being a complementary item.

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neilwilkesPosted at 2024-06-14 11:50:41(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Playing disc 2 as I write this.

Caveat - and please note this well - the discs are limited for volume, in some cases excessively so. I have removed the effects of the limiting and restored the lost dynamics as I want my copies to sound as clean as possible. The difference is noticeable, and for the better too. I do not evcen begin to understand the use of brickwall limiting for extra volume when we have the volume dial on the amplifier to do the job without fucking over the dynamics of the original mix as it was created in the studio.

Some of the material on offer is basically taken from bootleg cassette sources. Most of disc 1 is like this, with the exception being the Arnold Corns tracks listed as 'demos' that are actually from the Radio Luxembourg sessions and these sound as good as I have ever heard them.

Disc 2 begins with more bootleg cassette sourced material with the 'Lost Session' of 11th January 1972, follows with the 18th January session & then goes into the Old Grey Whistle Test material. Absolutely nothing new here, and I have these on bootlegs - several times over - already (admittedly the 24/96 resolution is new though).

Disc 3 is 3 more 1972 BBC sessions plus the TOTP of Starman, all original versions (at least they are not claimed to be remasters but they have definitely been brutalized with limiting for volume - BBC engineers in the 1970's didn't DO 'toothpaste' mixes - they knew what they were doing.
The biggest mystery to me here is why oh why are we still only getting mono versions when some of these are known to exist in stereo?

Disc 4 again has nothing new - singles, B-sides and the Boston 1972 live recordings.

Disc 5 actually has stuff I've not seen before, but not yet got there in playback so will post again once I have gobne through it in detail - this section was slammed even harder, with over 8dB og gain added by limiting. That is almost 133% louder with severely reduced dynamics!!

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MythicalkingDonatedPosted at 2024-06-14 15:03:57(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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I was so hoping that the box set to celebrate my favourite album would do it justice but am now resigned to be disappointed. Your observation about "limited volume" is particularly ironic given the strap line on the original album!

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neilwilkesPosted at 2024-06-14 15:37:48(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Mythicalking wrote:

I was so hoping that the box set to celebrate my favourite album would do it justice but am now resigned to be disappointed. Your observation about "limited volume" is particularly ironic given the strap line on the original album!

I guess it is at that!

Anyways, the interesting stuff is on disc 5.
Disc 1 is basically audience recording bootleg quality and although I have heard worse it's not great.
The Arnold Corns tracks have been out officially before (with the exception of 'Looking For a Friend (rough mix)' which we have available on several high quality ROIO releases.

Discs 2, 3 & 4 have precisely one poreviously unreleased track - the Boston Music Hall version of 'My Death', which also exists on several high quality bootleg/ROIO editions. Every other BBC track is previously released & still in Mono, even though some have stereo versions (okay narrow stereo but hey)

Disc 5 is the interesting stuff, even though the alternates of some tracks again already existed.
That disc is the star of the show though, so you vinyl guys are not actually missing much at all - if anything - as the good stuff fits on a single LP.

I feel a bit robbed after paying almost £150 for this.....

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2024-06-14 18:01:17(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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why oh why are we still only getting mono versions
'coz
the stereo versions will be on the next box set

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-06-14 18:42:10(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Mythicalking wrote:

I was so hoping that the box set to celebrate my favourite album would do it justice but am now resigned to be disappointed. Your observation about "limited volume" is particularly ironic given the strap line on the original album!

Not at all.

Limiting and high volume are two very different things.


Also the book and booklet in this set are very much part of the content.

I appreciate not everyone cares for those things, but they are very much part of the planning, presentation - and cost - of the package.

Quality printing has gone up a lot, take a look at any music magazine now, the price of one and the shit printing inside it.


I do not agree wholeheartedly wih the content, marketing and price of box sets like these - and indeed, I choose not to buy some by favourite artists (including Bowie) for that very reason.

However - with respect - to factor out the book and booklet and the cost of making them when discussing price is a falsehood.

It is more a case that what is on offer is not enough value for money for all potential buyers (as pernickety and boring as saying that might seem).

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MythicalkingDonatedPosted at 2024-06-14 19:48:47(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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My disappointment is essentially that this could have/should have been a stupendous box set to commemorate my favourite album ever and it isn't.  3CDs worth of content spun out into 5 discs when half of the Blu-Ray tracks could have been fitted in to a 5CD package feels like being short changed to me.  I take your point about the cost of printing these days but I haven't received my copy yet so I haven't seen the printed inclusions and therefore can't judge whether a premium price for those elements is warranted.  In some ways this is all academic because this box set is a 'must have' for me because I love the album so much.  But I fear that "not enough value for money" may well be my assessment once I get my hands on it.

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oumzozoPosted at 2024-06-15 03:05:11(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Is there a complete, cohesive track-listing (like some Beatles fans does for the SDE Beatles and solo release) about what is NEW exactly on each CD (or sonic upgrade ?)

The most interesting IMHO CDs are 1 for the demos and the CD 5; the live performance are great but the record at the Music Hall is poor for an official release (too bad, there is Life On Mars (I mean, there's perhaps life on Mars, but too bad that this song does not deserve a better treatment).

The Moonage Daydream instrumental reminds me some fan mixes using the stems/rockband to make instrumental or complete full length tracks. Too bad that there are no studio alternate take of Ziggy Stardust (the song);
I had bought the anniversary Ziggy Stardust digibook 2 CDs a while ago, and almost all the studio stuff was already on it.
I think that Bowie was right to sing Lady Stardust a-la Lennon-Sexie Sadie; the low vocal version is great but the final version is better.
This song is one of my all time Bowie favorite with Sweet Thing.
Is it Bowie on piano (or Mike Garson- I don't think so- he wasn't there at this time.) on "Starman Demo 2"; vocal is distant, but this home studio demo is damned good; pretty neatty.

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iguanaclerkPosted at 2024-06-15 03:52:27(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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neilwilkes wrote:

the discs are limited for volume, in some cases excessively so.

Are the dynamics any better on the bluray, if you're able to check? Sometimes on sets like these I've seen the BD have less peak limiting than the digital copy or CDs for whatever reason. I had actually been hoping for the 2012 remaster with no peak limiting on the BD, though given the state of the CDs that sounds like like a slim hope (though that RSD "Waiting In The Sky" thing had proper mastering on vinyl, so I hope they'd carry it over).

Last edited by iguanaclerk on 2024-06-15 03:56:09


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BallhausDonatedPosted at 2024-06-15 06:05:29(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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I'm especially disappointed about the sound quality of the five songs from Boston. There were much less tape hiss on the Aladin sane release and even on the semi legal rarestone .

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MossGardenPosted at 2024-06-16 09:19:01(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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I had a first listen yesterday, a download until I have a bit more gold in my pocket, I will be buying it.

I was excited and started to listen with my good headphones on, I had to give up using the headphones halfway through CD 2, the sound seems very brickwalled, like some of the other resent releases, that ends up giving me a headache like feeling.
Unlike neilwilkes I have no clue to knowing how to improve the sound, and we should not have to. It really takes the joy out of the listening experience, maybe the sound of the last cpl of CDs are better. They are anyway properly the Cds I will be listing to the most from this set.

Does anyone who has the Rock 'N' Roll Star! Lp compared the sound to the CD?

One last thing, I really enjoy having this discussion in the forum instead of the shout box

Last edited by MossGarden on 2024-06-16 09:19:42


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MythicalkingDonatedPosted at 2024-06-16 12:59:30(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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The 50th anniversary of the ‘Ziggy’ album came and went and was marked only by a tokenistic release.  Two years on we finally get a commemorative box set for Bowie’s breakthrough album in the form of ‘Rock’n’Roll Star!’ .  Why this? Why now?  Well the cynic in me believes that it was the emergence of the demo tapes that presented the opportunity to cynically milk the sacred cow.  

The reality is that there is only 2CDs worth of material here that is worth splashing out on (CDs 1 & 5).   The BBC material (CDs 2 & 3) is a proverbial ‘Diamond Dogs Breakfast’ presented in mono and audio quality that is matched if not bettered by a number of bootleg sources already available through the auspices of BowieStation and CD4 is primarily just a re-hash of bonus tracks from earlier releases.

The Blu-Ray includes both the 2102 Remaster and 2003 Remix of ‘Ziggy’ plus the recently issue ‘Waiting in the Sky’ (which is largely a reconfiguration of the 2012 release). And finally we get duplication of the tracks from CDs 4 & 5.  There is no visual content provided – missing out on the opportunity to include the OGWT clips, the Starman TOTP performance and the Ken Scott Ziggy interview footage all of which would have added something to this package.

The faux Notebook doesn’t really offer anything of great value other than a few scribblings of early draft lyrics for a few songs and certainly doesn’t warrant a separate A4 ‘reproduction’.  The main thing that I took from the notebook was that Bowie’s day to day handwriting bore little resemblance to the cover notes on Pinups and comfortingly was as scruffy and scrawled as that of the rest of us mere mortals.

The dominant element of this box set is the accompanying book which looks like a coffee table tome but doesn’t work as such because it also houses the discs.  And it’s telling that the housing for those discs are just flimsy card which says to me that the people who produced it knew that those discs wouldn’t be listened to all that often and therefore didn’t need anything more substantial.  I don’t deny that the quality of the book is high end but there is a huge amount of blank white space and a lot of full page photos that just seem to be there to take up space.

I am sure that there will be there will be some out there who will disagree with me but my view is that  ‘Rock’n’Roll Star!’ is a huge disappointment and represents very poor value for money.  I bought it out of love and respect for the man and the album and it is so sad that the people who put it together didn’t show similar love and respect when compiling it.

Last edited by Mythicalking on 2024-06-16 16:09:02


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bowie78Posted at 2024-06-16 17:34:19(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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I agree.but will buy it down the road a little.

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-06-17 00:53:56(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Ballhaus wrote:

I'm especially disappointed about the sound quality of the five songs from Boston. There were much less tape hiss on the Aladin sane release and even on the semi legal rarestone .

Applying noise reduction often removes music and atmosphere.

I used to like hiss removed on recordings, then I saw the light.

CD's were NR'd, sometimes heavily, from 1990 onwards.

From what I can tell, while sadly the horrible compression continues on many CDs despite the so-called end of the 'loudness wars' (look it up if you think I'm typing tosh), rolling back on NR'ing music has been occurring for the last decade or so.

Personally, from experience of listening to what this can reveal, I find this is actually a good thing.

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StardustpageDonatedPosted at 2024-06-17 10:44:17(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Hi all, thanks for your comments,
Sure i will buy it ... but in seconds hand ... in few months
i've got it by newsgroups ... and the quality is  :(

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mythnormadmanPosted at 2024-06-17 16:58:23(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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marcel wrote:

Penny lane turned out to be fake! its not bowie

https://recordcollectormag.com/articles/bowie-the-beatles-no-it-was-me

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2024-06-19 11:14:59(45 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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@Mythicalking = gr8 review

'clamshell box'
I've a Fela Kuti box-set which is basically all his CD's in paper covers.
And a slightly flimsy card box with a booklet.
You CAN get in at the discs though.
As for all these scribbly books.
Has anyone tried to play the CD's without using the floor or a table ?

Penny Lane
“Rod Stewart played harmonica on My Boy Lollipop”
https://recordcollectormag.com/articles/bowie-the-beatles-no-it-was-me
Tony Steven is who's singing.

Last edited by professormouse on 2024-06-19 11:16:45


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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-06-23 03:04:45(44 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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On disc 5, the Lady Stardust 1st take, Bowie here - at least as the song progresses after the first few bars, sounds like he's attempting Mick Ronson's mannered style of singing (at least judging by Mick's backing vocals, I haven't listened to the latter's solo stuff so often, sorry), with a slight American tinge.

The Spiders' take on The Shadowman I was disappointed with at first, but it grew on me - it's more of a sad, reflective take. Neither this, nor the Heathen version, beat the beautiful Hunky Dory era demo (most of us mere mortals have not heard the MWSTW era version), but nice all the same. It's clearly a bit of a run-through, but would have made a nice track in an even more polished form.

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2024-06-23 03:05:03


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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-06-23 03:43:20(44 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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MossGarden wrote:

I had a first listen yesterday, a download until I have a bit more gold in my pocket, I will be buying it.I was excited and started to listen with my good headphones on, I had to give up using the headphones halfway through CD 2, the sound seems very brickwalled, like some of the other resent releases, that ends up giving me a headache like feeling.Unlike neilwilkes I have no clue to knowing how to improve the sound, and we should not have to. It really takes the joy out of the listening experience, maybe the sound of the last cpl of CDs are better. They are anyway properly the Cds I will be listing to the most from this set.Does anyone who has the Rock 'N' Roll Star! Lp compared the sound to the CD?One last thing, I really enjoy having this discussion in the forum instead of the shout box

Here is a tip for you and anyone who finds the compressed sound of these CDs heavygoing.

PARLOPHONE and RAY STAFF if any of you read things like this - don't worry, I will cc some of these comments to Amazon, where you or someone you know may see them - NOT EVERYONE LIKES 'BRICKWALLING' on CDS ANY MORE. SEEMS YOU DIDN'T GET THE MEMO.

Now that's off my chest -

Download Audacity. It is free. Easy to use, there are many online tutorials and tutorials within it too. There are also more complex software tools which can help get music to a listenable state for your ears.

I'll assume at this point that you can, or can find, tuturials on ripping a CD - Exact Audio Copy is very good, I would like to focus on Audacity here for relative brevity and like I say there are ample forms of online assistance on these topics.

Open the tracks in Audacity (one by one, or select several to work through. You can copy them into one long block - block being apt as Parlophone like to cut tracks into brick-like shapes - if you like. Do this by either right clicking and open in Audacity in your file manager, or File-Open from the top menu in Audacity.

- Highlight the track / tracks - you can use Select-All from the dropdown at the top.
- Select Volume and Compression
- Select Amplify from the submenu that appears
- enter, say -3, or even -4, -5 or -6 depending how heavily hammered Parlophone have made the track you would prefer to enjoy.
- you can then try, using the EQ and Filters menu, adjusing Bass and Treble and/or High Pass Filter. My personal preference is using High Pass Filter. Light compression / additional bass by Parlphone et al can be reduced with, say 25 to 45 hpf. Heavier bass / sludginess / completely unnecessary muggines to the sound can be brought back to sane levels using, say 75hpf to 150 hpf, or even 250 hpf (which I have had to use in some cases where the record company has lost all sense of balance and customer care on this issue).

Export the track as FLAC [if you work on multiple tracks at one time, you can split the exported file into individual tracks using an application such as CDWave to split them, there are probably more modern 'apps' to do that, but CDWave is fine with me).

Voila! The music can start to sound AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE once again, rather than how a CEO deems it 'must' sound for their bottom line.




Last edited by Stranger09 on 2024-06-23 10:50:50


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MossGardenPosted at 2024-06-23 15:10:20(44 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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[/quote] Here is a tip for you and anyone who finds the compressed sound of these CDs heavygoing.PARLOPHONE and RAY STAFF if any of you read things like this - don't worry, I will cc some of these comments to Amazon, where you or someone you know may see them - NOT EVERYONE LIKES 'BRICKWALLING' on CDS ANY MORE. SEEMS YOU DIDN'T GET THE MEMO.Now that's off my chest........[/quote]

Thank you very much Stranger09, when I have some down time, I will give it a go, and see if I can breathe some air into the sound.

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