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Bowie General > Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-06-23 17:42:32(44 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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[/quote]  when I have some down time, I will give it a go, and see if I can breathe some air into the sound. [/quote]

Yep, it's nice to do, though needs time set aside. I spent half a day or so yesterday while I listened to other music - I find doing the saving is best to when I'm not playing music/doing anything that uses a lot of pc resources is good - loading up the entire box set gradually, and disc by disc, doing my gain reductions and high pass filtering. Glad I did, makes the listening far more easay going.

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2024-06-23 17:42:44


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PortlandbillPosted at 2024-06-23 19:13:00(44 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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It's good to read everyone's ideas and perceptions of this latest release of material. If it was material of a high quality and standard many of us wouldn't be tinkering with the recordings to make it sound better to our ears. Maybe it's time to make a stand and give it  a miss.

Regards.
PB.


I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring.
   
I'm not a prophet or a stone aged man, just a mortal with potential of a superman. I'm living on.
 
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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-06-23 19:32:45(44 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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People can indeed do what they like, given the cost of the box. While I still believe in this box - the books and presentation, and material, while needing tinkering make it all worthwhile for me personally.

However, to be pedantic / correct, it's not the standard or even roughness of a small portion of the music that means it needs 'rescuing' - it's Parlophone's and/or Bowie's manager's insistence of using compression on music for CD releases over a decade after the 'Loudness War' ended.

I feel if more people make clear online that loudness is not welcome on CDs (yes, I know some do welcome it :( ), the message *might* get through to the powers that be that those who still welcome a big compressed sound on CDs can simply turn the bass and volume up on their own equipment, rather than people having to undo the damage done by that sort of treatment on the music themselves.

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2024-06-23 19:35:23


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SteveboyDonatedPosted at 2024-06-24 15:58:26(44 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Some time ago this was posted on the internet, Did the Bowie estate buy these tapes.

David Bowie – Undocumented 1971 Acoustic Performance and Interview Tapes
Three unique and undocumented cassette tapes of David Bowie singing and being interviewed in February 1971; two while in San Francisco to promote his new album “The Man Who Sold The World.”  We acquired these tapes in the mid 1970’s and have had them in our collection ever since, without ever having made copies.  Remarkably, these have never surfaced in the collecting community nor have they been bootlegged.  The first captures Bowie singing and playing acoustic guitar in his San Francisco hotel room for 23 minutes, and includes seven songs, most notably “Hole In The Ground” (written at the time but unrecorded until 2001’s “Toy,”) and the completely undocumented “So Long Sixties.”  The second tape is a 69 minute interview with two music journalists; Bowie is extremely forthcoming on a great variety of topics. He speaks about growing up, his influences (Kerouac, Acker Bilk, “The Defiant Ones”,) his “men’s dresses” (he looks “very presentable” in them,) his time as a mime with Lindsey Kemp (he was “tragic and dramatic; his life beat any script,”) finding Mick Ronson and his influence on his music, recording “Man Who Sold The World” in 2-3 weeks, touring and his plans to play in America, his family’s mental illness, he recites a poem he wrote about San Francisco, his reaction to the US (it’s a “vulgar prostitute” but he likes it,) where he should live in the US, how he began songwriting, signing to Deram, Tony Visconti as a producer, Ronson as a frustrated guitarist and Mormon, Warhol star Ultra Violet and a party she’s giving with John Cale in LA, his forthcoming child (“the wee Bowie,”) women and their ability to predict the future, the end of the “underground,” how he’s the darling of the avant-garde, that he’s a manic depressive but his wife helps him a great deal with this, his new songs, and much much more.  The third tape is a December 1971 phone interview (25 minutes long) with Bowie, then back in London.  While the sound quality on the hotel room music and interview tapes is very good, this third tape suffers from a primitive transatlantic connection and is somewhat difficult to listen to.   These are truly unique Bowie artifacts, providing a great deal of insight into an artist who’s career is about to explode.  (Note: we are selling these as artifacts, without any claim to copyright.)


Steveboy


NO DISCUSSION I JUST WANT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC
WANTED
FRANKFURT 1976
1978 REHEARSALS
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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-06-25 10:14:40(44 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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This does sound very interesting, and I expect they did buy them, as how else would the wondering So Long 60s (which seems to have been partly developed into Moonage Daydream), be heard.

It is a shame they have not made even an edited version of the interview public: interviews from that time are scarce, particularly spoken ones.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2024-06-26 08:21:38(44 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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:-@

Last edited by professormouse on 2024-06-26 08:23:08


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PortlandbillPosted at 2024-07-15 18:16:11(41 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Now that I have aquired a (24-96) copy of  Rock ‘n’ Roll Star! I am supporting the idea that CD 5 is worth a listen, it's an interesting listen.

Regards
PB


I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring.
   
I'm not a prophet or a stone aged man, just a mortal with potential of a superman. I'm living on.
 
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neilwilkesPosted at 2024-07-18 12:40:21(41 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Portlandbill wrote:

Now that I have aquired a (24-96) copy of  Rock ‘n’ Roll Star! I am supporting the idea that CD 5 is worth a listen, it's an interesting listen.RegardsPB

What still annoys me is that all the BBC sessions are still in Mono - even though we have stereo versions of quite a few of these (okay, narrow stereo but still better than the mono stuff we have been belt-fed with the exception of the Bowie/Ronno acoustic session on 'Divine Symmetry'.

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-07-18 13:58:57(41 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Neil, are you sure it's not ambience?

To give a pertinent example of why I think it could be - old mono singles from the 60s in particular often had quite a 'wide' sound to them, which was very different from the mono sound of the same singles on later CD reissues. I have compared 60s single takes of songs reissued on CDs years later - particularly from the 90's onwards - and the difference, particularly in headphones - between the CD issue of them and rips of the original singles is huge. It's the same song, same mix, but the eqing and mastering of modern CDs mean that many mono tracks issued on CD - be it from albums or simgles - sound very flat and lack vibrancy compared to the original single.

There are exceptions to this 'rule', but, more often than not, I have found the above differences to between analogue 60s/70s mono recordings and CDs issued from the 1990s onwards to be the norm.

So, going back to Bowie sessions, I cannot categorically say I have never heard a true stereo Bowie radio session track other than the Bowie / Ronno set, and the Sunday In Concert set (both from 1971), but I have not heard any other session track (up to and including 1972) that I would swear blind is true stereo either.

One further example that got me thinking about this recently : I got the Who BBC sessions cd again recently (I'd sold it before because it didn't sound good enough - I got the 2 part one, the one with the bonus cd, this time). Once more I found the material sounded in this case, too 'sparkly' and lacking feel ... I have been comparing it to the Who 'BBC Tonight' download among others, which is taken from an old bootleg LP. The latter needed more treble, speed correction, and de-clicking - BUT the vibrancy, feel, and the 'involving' feel to the music was miles apart from the later CD issue. The music too, sounds a little 'like' stereo, but it is most certainly not (and I did not carry out processing that would artificially create a stereo-ish sound in this instance either).*


Whether either of us is wrong on this issue, record companies could do a lot better on mastering mono material for CD.


* If the Who 'BBC Tonight' LP had had any processing to give a stereo effect, other Who BBC sessions  from tape sources also gave the music a stereo-ish sound, at least in comparison to the Who at the BBC cd.

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2024-07-18 14:10:18


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bowie78Posted at 2024-07-20 15:49:55(40 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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seing as aylesbury 71 was recorded...im surprised the early 72 show wasnt.

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-07-20 16:36:16(40 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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bowie78 wrote:

seing as aylesbury 71 was recorded...im surprised the early 72 show wasnt.

yep, I hadn't realised there was an early 1972 Aylesbury show until recently, I thought it was the mid 1971 show, then the Jul 72 one there.

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neilwilkesPosted at 2024-08-03 11:34:26(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Stranger09 wrote:

Neil, are you sure it's not ambience?

In a word, yes.
It's not just me either as this has been verified by a rather good - damned good in fact - archivist, whose speciality is collating entire catalogues of bodies of work.
Bowie was one of the first he did, and some of the variations are staggering inasmuch as they seem to be almost unknown.
For starters, how many alternate versions of the 'Dudes' track with Mott do you think exist? Take a guess.....
I'll also make you a set of the BBC Stereo versions I have.

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100PCBPosted at 2024-08-04 14:23:13(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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neilwilkes wrote:

For starters, how many alternate versions of the 'Dudes' track with Mott do you think exist?

I know of 8 from memory.

Last edited by 100PCB on 2024-08-04 14:23:26


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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2024-08-04 19:40:58(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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Bowie

Live
Stereo Studio
Mono Studio
Spiders Version
David Bowie & Ian Hunter Vocal/ (1998 Bowie / Hunter Vocal Audio-Morph)

Mott The Hoople

LP Version
'Unlocked Cars' Version

i have seven official out there versions ?

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neilwilkesPosted at 2024-08-05 13:42:18(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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There's 7 different versions of ATYD with Mott alone:
Long Version, Guitar Intro & No Sax, Stereo
Long Version, Guitar Intro & No Sax, Stereo (alternate mix)
Long Version, No Guitar Intro & Sax, Mono
Long Version, No Guitar Intro & Sax, Stereo
Short Version, Guitar Intro & Sax, Stereo
Long Version, out-take from the Mott 'ATYD' album

Then there are the mono/stereo versions (3.08 run time)
A stereo version at 4.11

I'll go through all the versions I have & try to come up with a count. You've got me thinking now....

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100PCBPosted at 2024-08-06 16:02:31(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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One person on my old mailing list told me he had a studio session with 8 takes (again all from my jaded memory lol).

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2024-08-07 17:05:27(38 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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there's allegedly over an hour of laughing gnome mixes too
how many records will that take up ?

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ayresPosted at 2024-08-09 19:34:15(37 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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I never liked Bowie's vocals on the studio version of ATYD
Maybe an alternate take has a more inspired vocal

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2024-08-09 22:32:14(37 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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professormouse wrote:

there's allegedly over an hour of laughing gnome mixes toohow many records will that take up ?

If this were true, I would genuinely be interested in haering it. Not all in one go, but would be interesting to me anyway.

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professormouseDonatedPosted at 2024-08-10 21:53:01(37 wks ago) (Bowie General / Rock ‘n’ Roll Star!)


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"The various edits and mixes lasted between 2:30 and 3:30"
https://www.bowiebible.com/1967/02/10/recording-the-laughing-gnome-2/?utm_content=cmp-true
of course
:-@
i can't find the actual article now
but there seems to have been 'a few' versions of it

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