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Bowie General > boston and carnegie hall

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averybowieDonatedPosted at 2023-09-16 18:10:45(32 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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Does davids estate still have the full official recordings of these 2 shows or is it just the songs that have been released? and how likely would it be that they get released any time soon if they have the full show?


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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-09-17 12:37:33(32 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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AFAIK, we only have 5 tracks officially from Boston Music Hall and just the one from Carnegie Hall.
According to Jeff Rougvie's excellent blog, they didn't have the tracks for the full show at the time the first 3 came out on the CD-V (disc 4 of the original Ryko 'Sound & Vision' box).
See http://www.jeffrougvie.com/bowie-blog/ - it's a lengthy but worthwhile read. Get a coffee and a ciggy and sit back to read.
The other 2 tracks appeared later ('My Death' & 'Life On Mars?') with 'Life On Mars?' being included on the 'blink and you missed it' Japanese 30th anniversary 2CD edition of Aladdin Sane along with the earlier 3 tracks. IIRC, 'My Death' first appeared on the 'Secrets Of My Lost Years' 3CD Bootleg set before popping up on the 'Absolutely Rare' title as well as 'Opened Up & Dusted Down - The Trident Tapes vol 1' (another great boot) so not sure if that ever actually got an official release, or just 'unofficial'.

The version of 'My Death' from Carnegie Hall is a one-off. AFAIK, nothing else exists from that show (at least not properly recorded to multitrack, anyway)

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2023-09-17 14:50:35(32 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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My recollection re Carnegie Hall was that it was recorded in full but the levels were all over the place - so it makes sense that an acoustic only song, My Death, was the only one deemed worthy of consideration for release.

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averybowieDonatedPosted at 2023-09-17 19:47:18(32 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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thank you guys very much the questions been on my mind for a bit


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averybowieDonatedPosted at 2023-09-17 19:47:50(32 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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i would be perfectly happy with another 72 show releasing even if its shit quality


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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-09-18 12:44:21(32 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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Stranger09 wrote:

My recollection re Carnegie Hall was that it was recorded in full but the levels were all over the place - so it makes sense that an acoustic only song, My Death, was the only one deemed worthy of consideration for release.

This could well be the reality of it (sorry - it just slipped out, as the Bishop said to the Actress)
I honestly don't know, but having made live recordings both straight to 2-track off the front-of-house console as well as setting up a genuine stereo mix on the fly from the monitor console and even going from FOH to multitrack (bloody difficult to get right as your primary concern has to be what the MAB's are hearing on the night, and even using a pair of pre-fade sends has issues) it is ever so easy to end up with an unusable mess.
The best way is to take a split feed from the stage box (where all the mic lines are plugged in, with one set going to FOH, another to the Monitors and a third now going either direct to a multitrack recorder or a third console) but even this can cause problems, and back in the early 70's the tech was not really there to do it properly so the usual method for a label would have been to either bring in a completely separate setup (you can see this on the Ziggy film with all the doubled-up microphones) or else use a room wired for the job and go 'on the fly' straight to 2-track. The only probl;em with the straight to 2-track method is that there will be no multitracks, so if you don't get it right on the night it's a goner.
Live recordings are difficult to do well because there is so much that can go wrong. You need the performance to be there - it's no use just having a technically proficient show as that will end up sounding flat & lifeless - feel is all and vibe is king - so the band need to be playing well, the tech crews have to not somehow cock it up (which from my experience is very easy to do), the gear needs to work and you can see the list of possible SNAFU areas.
But when you get it right, you get a great recording

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2023-09-18 13:40:51(32 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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The above is why compiling from various recordings suits me - not for everyone, I know some prefer to hear the show as it flows regardless.

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bowiebingoPosted at 2023-09-19 09:45:31(31 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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I'm sure I'd read somewhere that the other issue with Carnegie Hall is that the recording is owned by MainMan, rather than the estate - hence it appearing on Changes Rare Bowie (or whatever it was called!)

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Stranger09DonatedPosted at 2023-09-19 11:35:01(31 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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Given across all forms of media we are now at the stage of "it should be all out for everyone to hear / see and make their own assessment", is there a case for listing on here all Bowie dates where there is a high probability a recording exists?

Could be a bit of a headache for the admins here, I know - but this is Bowie. Bowie is obsessed about, not just here, but here there and everywhere, in the news, on social media. The idea of at the very least documenting known recordings, as knowledge of them expands - even if they cannot be heard for ownership / legal reasons (when I say 'ownership' I mean some have them and will not share them, and yes while I have mixed opinions on that, I do appreciate if someone paid a lot of money for a rare recording they may not want to share it as they will never recoup their outlay).

In some cases, I understand that the declaration of a recording being declared as existant could be a headache also for anyone known / likely to have a copy, however like I say we are now living an age of documentation and availability of so much recorded media (music / photographic / film, etc), where at the least a written record of it seems to be in order.

If this site is not the place, fair enough though.

One more thing - and I do appreciate my wordy nature can obscure some points for some - a clear declaration that a recording exists but is not on here / widely available is sometimes a wake up call / welcome reminder for someone who does have it who is more than happy to share.

Last edited by Stranger09 on 2023-09-20 12:19:24


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neilwilkesPosted at 2023-09-20 12:15:00(31 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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Some good points.
Personally, I would not have an issue with known recordings existence being discussed and listed - the criteria that is important is that no officially released material can be allowed, and that gives us a lot of wiggle room.
If someone wants to share something exceptionally rare then that would be perfectly fine as long as the Archive has not made it available, even for only 5 minutes to get around certain things going out of copyright & into the Public Domain - the way the law stands it's a case of 'use it or lose it', which probably goes a long way towards explaining releases such as 'Conversation Piece', 'Spying Through a Keyhole' & 'The Mercury Demos' as a lot of the content there was widely bootlegged prior to those being made available (and with some of them it has also been argued some of the, erm 'unofficial' versions are superior to the poorly 'remastered' stuff the Archive puts out.
Not that I am saying one thing or the other - just pointing out that 'it has been argued'....

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averybowieDonatedPosted at 2023-10-16 01:41:45(28 wks ago) (Bowie General / boston and carnegie hall)


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bowiebingo wrote:

I'm sure I'd read somewhere that the other issue with Carnegie Hall is that the recording is owned by MainMan, rather than the estate - hence it appearing on Changes Rare Bowie (or whatever it was called!)

isnt it the same with boston?


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