[Login] or [Signup]
Login
Username:
Password:
[Signup]
[Recover Account]

Navigation

Poll


You must be logged in to view polls
Bowie General > TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?

You are in:  Forums / Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?
Locked
pobbardPosted at 2016-02-13 20:32:25(487 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)


Uploaded: 70.23 GB
Downloaded: 54.02 GB
Posts: 8

Ratio: 1.30
Location: United States of America


As far as I know, the only versions of TOY circulating all source from the same MP3 leak in 2011.

However, I was just sent an 11 track version (apparently first circulated in December 2011) with the following notes attached:

"Notes: Ripped from vinyl, declicked manually in CEP2, lineage checked for MP3 ancestry - CDDA 99% probable, (screenshots included in torrent)

Info: I bought this to see if thetracks were from the MP3 source, and was pleased to find they weren't. The LP arrived the same day as my replacement stylus, so this is a fresh transfer with a pristine needle."

I did a quick spectral analysis and it doesn't look like an OBVIOUS MP3 source... and the sound quality is better (more treble/definition) than the 14 track MP3 version I have from 2011. On the other hand, the bottom end is greatly reduced... a side effect of someone trying to make a lossy source sound better?

Curious if anyone has come across this before...

Thanks.

Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
KiwikidPosted at 2016-02-13 23:02:27(487 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)


Uploaded: 2.92 TB
Downloaded: 622.33 GB
Posts: 452

Ratio: 4.80
Location: New Zealand


Hi here's a good conversation in forum we had about it and our different versions as I have that 11 tack vinyl in flac as well http://www.bowiestation.com/TT2/forums.php?action=viewtopic&topicid=502

Last edited by Kiwikid on 2016-02-13 23:04:03



Bless the Tapers and Uploaders they make the Music Live
Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
SteveboyDonatedPosted at 2016-02-14 19:01:45(487 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)


Uploaded: 4.24 TB
Downloaded: 1.08 TB
Posts: 1036

Ratio: 3.91
Location: United Kingdom


Kiwikid wrote:

Hi here's a good conversation in forum we had about it and our different versions as I have that 11 tack vinyl in flac as well http://www.bowiestation.com/TT2/forums.php?action=viewtopic&topicid=502

Has this 11 track non mp3 source been uploaded ???

Steveboy


NO DISCUSSION I JUST WANT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC
WANTED
FRANKFURT 1976
1978 REHEARSALS
Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
JanErikPosted at 2016-02-14 19:12:52(487 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)
Admin


Uploaded: 17.38 TB
Downloaded: 2.51 TB
Posts: 1251

Ratio: 6.94
Location: Norway


Steveboy wrote:

Has this 11 track non mp3 source been uploaded ???Steveboy

It is not here yet, but I'm not sure if it is lossless. Coming up soon.

Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
KiwikidPosted at 2016-02-14 21:01:20(487 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)


Uploaded: 2.92 TB
Downloaded: 622.33 GB
Posts: 452

Ratio: 4.80
Location: New Zealand


JanErik wrote:

Steveboy wrote:

Has this 11 track non mp3 source been uploaded ???Steveboy

It is not here yet, but I'm not sure if it is lossless. Coming up soon.

On plot spectrum mine reads out to over 20khz
have a pic of uncle Floyd frequency analysis and it looks good  that come with torrent haven't done my own
but with it is also one for uncle Floyd mp3 to show what MP3 looks like (mp3 taken from album after?)
that's why my comment on other thread bloated mp3 or something not sure how they get all that extra in the 16-20khz zone if it's not there to start with,  so don't think lossless, worked on really well mp3 just boosted the little that was in the 16-20khz range

Last edited by Kiwikid on 2016-02-14 22:48:55



Bless the Tapers and Uploaders they make the Music Live
Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
JanErikPosted at 2016-02-14 21:13:00(487 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)
Admin


Uploaded: 17.38 TB
Downloaded: 2.51 TB
Posts: 1251

Ratio: 6.94
Location: Norway


A vinyl normally has a dynamic range of 50-70dB, so my guess would simply be noise...

Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
aslan1Posted at 2016-02-15 01:14:14(487 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)


Uploaded: 377.73 MB
Downloaded: 8.26 GB
Posts: 1

Ratio: 0.04
Location: Ireland


I have this vinyl also but always thought it was mp3 sourced?

Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
pobbardPosted at 2016-02-16 03:01:57(486 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)


Uploaded: 70.23 GB
Downloaded: 54.02 GB
Posts: 8

Ratio: 1.30
Location: United States of America


On further analysis, I think this is just an MP3 source with the EQ heavily tinkered with -- the bass is virtually removed and the treble is cranked way up. The spectral analysis shows a lot of activity until about 15khz, and then present but spotty activity afterwards -- a noisy LP, maybe?

Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
toneblokePosted at 2016-02-16 05:26:41(486 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)
Remember me !


Uploaded: 1.86 TB
Downloaded: 974.66 GB
Posts: 563

Ratio: 1.96
Location: Australia


I've left an opinion here:   http://www.bowiestation.com/TT2/torrents-details.php?id=1578&hit=1


"Look up here, I’m in heaven
I’ve got scars that can’t be seen"
Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
neilwilkesPosted at 2016-02-16 09:36:08(486 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)


Uploaded: 762.30 GB
Downloaded: 638.25 GB
Posts: 756

Ratio: 1.19
Location: United Kingdom


tonebloke wrote:

I've left an opinion here:   http://www.bowiestation.com/TT2/torrents-details.php?id=1578&hit=1

Which is absolutely bang on the mark. This is lossy, all versions of this were from leaked/stolen 256kbps mp3 files taken from Mark Plati's laptop apparently.

It is very easy to fool apps like TAU Analyzer (which calls CD or MPEG) and similar tools - all you have to do is take the lossy source & fiddle with it a little, ruin it through some nice emulations that incorporate non-linear processes and bingo - MP3 source becomes lossless. Hah!
Another problem with looking at the files in a spectrum analyzer is that a 16kHz cutoff is not necessarily indicative of a lossy source - an FM broadcast is also bandwidth restricted, and a lot of 60's & early 70's vionyl was also limited in range - there used to be a label on certain vinyl reading FFSS, which stands for "full frequency stereophonic spectrum" and it cuts off at around 14k4 - not anywhere near 22k.
It has been posted that a CD lossless source will always show audio up to the nyquist limit of 22.05kHz (nyquist's theorem says that to accurately reproduce the entire range of a recording, the sample rate must be at least twice that of the highest frequency recorded, with the emphasis on "at least";) but again, this depends on the source range. Personally, I agree with the study done by the AES that says we should be using 3 times the upper frequency response to prevent aliasing at the Nyquist limit.

Other problems include bandwidth limitations of the original gear - the console used, the tape machine used etc - not all of them go anywhere near 20kHz, and a lot of the classic gear used in older studios cuts off around 15kHz.

The only real way to tell lossy is to listen to it and be listening for what has been called "space monkeys" but again this only works on stereo recordings & will not work on mono.

Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
toneblokePosted at 2016-02-16 11:56:52(486 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)
Remember me !


Uploaded: 1.86 TB
Downloaded: 974.66 GB
Posts: 563

Ratio: 1.96
Location: Australia


neilwilkes wrote:

all versions of this were from leaked/stolen 256kbps mp3 files taken from Mark Plati's laptop apparently.

First time I've heard this. Considering what has been shared since the first leak, in it's different guises, I'll lean towards that. Cheers.



Slight rant:-

Over the journey I've seen a handful of people claim that they can "manipulate" a lossy audio track and make it, at least look, lossless. I'm sure it can be done BUT to what end. This journey we boot collectors are on isn't the be all and end all when it comes to having quality audio. This isn't my minor rant about lossless vs lossy but an observation.

I collect lossless (in whatever form it comes in) but I listen to lossy on a daily basis because it's easy. Chuck a few hunderd tunes on the Ipod and I'm good to go. I don't denigrate lossy 'cause it's useful but I choose to have better quality audio when I really want to "listen" to something.

End of slight rant.



Neil, you make some good points above but the one I always have in the back of my mind is that when analysing any audio, but more often when it's an older capture, is the equipment used at the time will have a big bearing on what we "see" now when chucking a file in the DAW. But then you can't disregard the fact that people will share "dirty" caps/rips and pass them off as the good stuff for whatever reason.



Last edited by tonebloke on 2016-02-16 11:59:14



"Look up here, I’m in heaven
I’ve got scars that can’t be seen"
Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
KiwikidPosted at 2016-02-16 12:25:08(486 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)


Uploaded: 2.92 TB
Downloaded: 622.33 GB
Posts: 452

Ratio: 4.80
Location: New Zealand


tonebloke wrote:

but the one I always have in the back of my mind is that when analysing any audio, but more often when it's an older capture, is the equipment used at the time will have a big bearing on what we "see" now when chucking a file in the DAW.

something reading a while ago so would go for old radio broadcast shows
is AM radio maximum output frequency was max 1605khz why pay for the extra bandwidth
when it really wasn't necessary
gee they knew way back then so why didn't I have an Ipod as a kid

so people yelling out it's lossy need to consider this as well
one show I put up was a 1971 AM Broadcast capture first comment was it's lossy

so I've got in my head early 70's radio capture can guess going to look like lossy
other early 70's some might not be much better

Last edited by Kiwikid on 2016-02-16 12:25:47



Bless the Tapers and Uploaders they make the Music Live
Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 
DavesolarDonatedPosted at 2016-02-16 16:51:54(486 wks ago) (Bowie General / TOY - 11 track vinyl version, supposedly lossless?)


Uploaded: 812.01 GB
Downloaded: 411.71 GB
Posts: 270

Ratio: 1.97
Location: Germany


Quote:

Tonebloke wrote : I collect lossless (in whatever form it comes in) but I listen to lossy on a daily basis because it's easy. Chuck a few hunderd tunes on the Ipod and I'm good to go. I don't denigrate lossy 'cause it's useful but I choose to have better quality audio when I really want to "listen" to something.

That's my point too, I really dislike MP3, but when there is no lossless version in the moment, I'll give MP3 a (not glad) listen, but when I get it lossless - the MP3 dies in the same moment !!   :bomb

Report This Post Go to the top of the page
 

<< Prev  1   Next >>

Locked
You are not permitted to post in this forum.

Latest Forum Posts
Latest Topic TitleRepliesViewsAuthorLast Post
Cracked Actor concert footage date?2175Rael076by Rael076
2025-06-15 22:36:49
where are the box sets?232241ayresby professormouse
2025-06-15 14:22:52
Health Issues394188Steveboyby TrvisBckle63
2025-06-14 20:23:10
A BELATED HAPPY 10th BIRTHDAY BOWIE STATION10471Steveboyby Davesolar
2025-06-10 14:53:18
Images Vol. 270296homebrewby homebrew
2025-06-07 13:22:32
Images Vol. 261503homebrewby professormouse
2025-06-01 01:39:58
T-Mobile Arena, Prague June 20042585themoleby themole
2025-05-27 04:56:51
RIP Alan Yentob + Interview1493MossGardenby professormouse
2025-05-26 22:27:42
Images Vol. 250449homebrewby homebrew
2025-05-24 15:04:23
Images Vol. 242560homebrewby professormouse
2025-05-21 23:22:25
Images Vol. 230821homebrewby homebrew
2025-05-10 13:42:40
Montreux 2002 HDTV video2799Ballhausby Moony
2025-05-04 19:50:29
Images Vol. 220883homebrewby homebrew
2025-05-03 14:39:55
Images Vol. 212788homebrewby Moony
2025-04-30 20:53:01
40th Anniversary Picture Disc Collection - Mixcloud Playlist127254libertine90by professormouse
2025-04-30 09:17:54


Online Users

Newest Members
Modified by JanErik |- Page Generated In 0.061348 secs.
-|- RSS Feed -|- Feed Info
Theme Base By: Nikkbu | Modified by: paperdragon | Graphics by: MossGarden
Email: bowiestation(AT)bowiestation.com